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Ancient Rites (Bel)
Azaghal (Fin)
Clandestine Blaze (Fin)
Denial of God (Den)
Levifer (Peru)
Withered Garden (Fin)
ANCIENT RITES (Bel) download HERE
Questions Tommi Hakonen / answered by Gunther Theys
This is one of the longest interviews ever featured in Dark Moon ‘zine but this isn't just any band but the mighty Ancient Rites! Günther answered the questions, and the questions which are marked with “ * “ are made by J.Valtonen. No further introduction needed… here we go…
Let's start with a nice one… Why did it take so long to form a black metal -band? I mean, you were about 23 (right?) in 1988 when A.R. was formed so why didn't you form a bm-band already in the mid 80s when it would have been really unique style after all? Or did you just wait for the right time…?
-Indeed a nice one to start, my friend. Did I coincidentally kill your mother in a previous live to come up with such a venomous question? Hahaha! Actually I was impatiently waiting for people like you to be old enough to buy my albums before I decided to form a B.M. band J . After all, why did it take those damn Norwegians so long to start their killings and arson? We could have made a profit out of the Black Metal trend many years earlier already, death and destruction sells!!! Further more I was waiting for Bram Stoker's “Dracula” to be filmed in a more romantic and popular version so we could jump on the vampire black Metal trend too, to get the girls in as well. A pity I had to wait until '88 before I was sure the style would sell, took me too long to realise it, I'm a bad business man!… Ha ha ha! Ok, on a more serious note. As you seem to be well informed on the A.R. history I am convinced you are aware of the fact I'm a veteran in the scene and didn't discover the style years too late as you were implying. I remember the first VENOM record being released, I witnessed the release of cult demos like the ones of ONSLAUGHT or HELLHAMMER which circulated in underground circles and already being a musician myself naturally I participated in an active way in that scene…It indeed would have been stupid to jump on any bandwagon years too late. I formed a band named NECROPHILIA (back then the name did not sound as much as a clichй as it does today) somewhere in the early 80's ('83 I believe). It took me a long time to find people willing to play that style. Do not forget I live in a smaller city without any scene. NECROPHILIA was a mixture of Black and Speed/Thrash Metal. I also rehearsed with a band named MANIAC (even back then the name already sounded clichй but we did not care as we were typical “Beavis and Buttheads” ah ah!). MANIAC played a mix of Heavy and Black Metal, with the accent slightly more on Heavy Metal. I played in several bands of the style but only with ANCIENT RITES we managed to spread our name. Actually there was a very early version of ANCIENT RITES (in which I played guitars!!!) before '88 active but that line up failed somehow as well. Things only started rolling for us after recording “DARK RITUAL”, also quite modest though. Guess we never were picked up by the right people. Fact remains that I have been playing B.M. since the beginning of the style, only no one offered us a chance…Belgium never was the centre of the universe when it comes to extreme music, there always have been heaps of extreme bands but somehow there were/are no infra structures to support, let alone “export” the bands. We found ourselves in an isolated position geographically. I know in Finland people support the own bands and scene a lot more. I remember the great Finnish Punk scene with bands such as RIISTETYT, RATTUS, TERVEET KÄDET, TAMPERE SS, KAAOS, APPENDIX etc., also within the Metal style Finnish bands have a large national following. In my country most people only care for foreign acts. A national success like AMPORPHIS had in Finland would not be possible over here. Our folk are not chauvinist enough to support the own scene and press + labels concentrate on foreign acts as well. That's why I concentrated on playing abroad with A.R. from the start as I understood that keep on trying to build a name in the own land would not lead us anywhere, I had already been doing that since '79 without success. Only after we received positive critics in foreign press and had a fanbase abroad the homefront started embracing our work…Only after we started our own record label “Fallen Angel Records” on which we released the “Evil Prevails” ep we slowly gained recognition. We should have done this from the start but actually it is rather tragic, isn't it? That we HAD to create our own label (without being interested in that actually) only to be able to release our own music…That explains why it took so long before anyone heard from us, after all creating a label takes money and for years we hoped in vain that a label would pick us up, even after Fallen Angel was created most distributors refused to work with us as they did not consider us a real label, in which they were right of course…It were different times my friend, difficult to explain to those who did not experience them. Nowadays bands get signed easy, this was not the case back then. It was considered already a big achievement to have some vinyl out…We felt we had achieved something after “Evil Prevails” was released on vinyl, it took years of hard work and preparation. Actually I have this feeling you already know the answers but simply like to provoke a bit, someone like you who seems to be aware of the A.R. history that well MUST have read somewhere I have been active in the B.M. scene since the beginning…
You have said that when your demo was released in 1990, nobody was interested in metal connecting with occult/dark lyrics… but there were at least some bands with such lyrics back then. Morbid Angel's ”Altars of Madness”, Deicide's debut and Samael's ”Worship Him”, just to name a few biggest names, were some releases at the time when ”Dark Ritual” demo was released… so what you mean with that sentence? Did you mean such metal didn't have listeners in Belgium?
-Indeed. Our national labels were not interested in the style and focussed on other styles of Metal. Even distribution was denied and I even knew people at the distribution companies, all in vain! When we tried to built a name by playing live it was hard to get any gigs. We ended up organising everything ourselves. I remember people comparing us all the time to other bands: “You are too hard to be accepted by Metallica fans but the days of Venom are over too, why you write about Satan? That is not longer considered cool”. When we used corpse paint in the 80's many people compared us to KISS but could not place us musically. A lot of prejudice. Even the bands you mentioned hardly got any gigs. In retrospective it is easier to have an “overall view” but at that time all these bands were trying to build something local and were often stuck in their own scene, if there was any at all. Internationally a handful of bands were trying to do something different but it was very underground. In a way I miss those days…
You are a pioneer of the so called 2 nd bm-movement, are you disappointed because the movement became so popular?
-I have been active in the B.M. scene since the very beginning back in '81. With ANCIENT RITES we always had an own identity/approach which separated us a bit from the rest of the scene. But without any doubt we have build a road for the new B.M. generation together with acts such as MAYHEM, BEHERIT, SAMAEL, SARCOFAGO, ROTTING CHRIST, IMPALED NAZARENE and a few others. Pioneers hardly ever gain the recognition they deserve. Many new kids in the scene only know the new generation B.M. bands who either sound Scandinavian (primitive and brutal) or Gothic (more commercial, keyboard orientated) and find it hard to accept bands who sound differently as real Black Metal. Yet one shouldn't forget that when we started EVERY band sounded different and original. Same goes for the originators such as BATHORY, VENOM, HELLHAMMER: each band had its own style. Today the scene is overcrowded with copycats and manufactured, hyped and artificial bands who simply profit from the current trend. There are new bands I respect and appreciate but I do not like all these imitations that spoil the scene. This “overkill” of uninteresting releases definitely harms the scene and eventually will bring the style in discredit. The Cult is turning into a Circus, it occurs to me that many bands are more concerned about their corpsepaint and “evil” poses than their music. Also in Heavy/Power Metal too many bands are imitating the 80's Heavy Metal bands without offering anything of their own. It is a general phenomenon. In my book copies NEVER are as good as the originals. Being a musician myself enables me to have a look behind the curtains of the music industry and I must confess I do not like everything I see. Even our cult is corrupted to the bone and all is about money (even positive reviews, interviews can be bought). Managers, major labels and mainstream press make or break a band, only depending on how much money is invested and spent on the “product (band)”. I always have this feeling that the scene was more pure and real years ago. I remember as if it was yesterday that in the early 80's it was very common to be into different styles of Metal. Metalheads were banging their heads to bands like MOTÖRHEAD, ANGELWITCH, MERCYFUL FATE and SLAYER in the local Metalpubs and went to see groups such as POSSESSED, VOПVOD, SODOM or CELTIC FROST in concert and equally loved it! It were different times and all A.R. members belong to this old generation who stood at the cradle of Black Metal and embraced the new child without rejecting the past and traditional Metal that had coloured our earliest youth. There almost was like a brotherly, tribal feeling between Headbangers. Things were less complex and somehow I have a feeling even the most popular bands were less manufactured. Maybe nostalgia is playing tricks with my mind but at least that's how I experienced and lived the old scene. Of course there will always be great bands that keep the Flame burning. No use to complain about it, I have seen many subcultures turn into a trend. B.M. unfortunately and obviously is no exception.
You have a deal with Hammerheart records, which is said to be interested in money and only money… but what is it like to be a part of their business? Do you have any ”responsibilities” towards HHR and do you think HHR will release your stuff also in the future if your albums won't sell enough?
-HHR do not put pressure on us, interfere with our musical approach or image. We do not feel trapped. Of course they expect their bands to “deliver”. I guess if A.R. stops selling HHR will not release our stuff any longer. They are a professional label nowadays and most probably appreciate the bands they sign but I think simply liking a band is no longer their only criterion. Underground attitudes do not make a label bigger and HHR are a fast growing label with offices overseas which means they are talking business. What I find positive is that at least our work is much better distributed since we signed to HHR, it offers an artistic kind of pleasure.
You have said that bands which are on big labels get more attention and room in big metal magazines, so… are you getting more room for interviews? Is everything dealing with promotion, getting gigs, etc. easier now as your label has more money to invest? Does the money open more doors and do you like it?
-Certain doors that were closed in the past opened up. Others remain closed as it would take much more money to open these. If I like that? No, I don't. It proves that quality and dedication alone are not enough to make it in the scene. Besides that money does not pass our hands so we can't buy anything with that if you refer to materialistic wealth we might have gathered. “Make no mistake” Bush would say: we are as poor as when we started. On the other hand these opened doors prove both HHR and A.R. are on the way up, and both band and label have built up a tradition as I never received as many interviews as nowadays.
Your latest album, ”Dim Carcosa”, was released on CD, LP and… on digipack which is limited to 10000 copies… Limited to 10000 copies, come on… am I the only one who thinks this sounds ridiculous? Any opinion?
-I know 10.000 copies is a lot for underground standards but in the end means NOTHING in this music industry. From a wider perspective 10.000 copies IS a limited number how strange it might sound to our “underground” ears. I remember how thrilled we were when we heard we sold a few thousand copies of our debut “THE DIABOLIC SERENADES” within a week. With “DIM CARCOSA” we knew we HAD to sell at least 20.000 copies in order to get even with the label. You see the production of “DIM CARCOSA” was expensive and HHR had to pay a large amount of money to our previous label MASCOT in order to get us under contract, we already started “in red” before one note was recorded…A lot of money is involved, indeed rather frustrating that none of it is for us musicians, haha. These are the rules, unfortunately and we have to dance the tune or stay at home and play for our friends in the living room. It's a game everyone has to play. Sure: when A.R. started we tried to play it differently, were naive to believe we could do it on our own and release our work by ourselves. As I stated earlier all doors remained shut. Stores did not stock our album, distributors did not consider us a label so they saw no use in working with us etc. The very same people who refused to distribute our album at a later stage in our career were involved with the distribution of our stuff AFTER we had signed to a regular label. In the eyes of these people 10.000 copies are “peanuts” my friend. Different world, different standards…
With the previous questions I was just asking your opinions about the things many metalheads and your earlier fans could be thinking of. The most important things are, however; are you afraid that having a deal with HHR could ruin your image (in the Ug-scene at least)? Is it possible that A.R. grows ”older” and more ”mature” as promotion and everything else is handled properly and begin to release mainstream metal albums for bigger audience?
-Oh, of course we do receive critics from people who accuse us of selling out because we play more than one chord, have a strong production and nowadays draw larger crowds. Such is inevitable. Recently we received (anonymous of course) hate mail of people complaining about the fact we were not wearing the right clothes anymore. Others called us far right extremists as we appear on big festivals and had thousands of people singing along the “Fatherland” song, they considered it as politically incorrect to appear on “mass meetings” and to write a song about history and heritage. No matter what, we remain as controversial as when we started when there were protests about us labelling us as satanic extremists. People will always find a reason to complain if they hate you, somehow I do not mind this controversy, we never tried to please the masses anyway, always followed our own path. Honestly I really do not care about what people think about me, guess age has a lot to do with that. Feel no need to prove anything to anyone. If tomorrow I decide to release a Jazz album I simply will do that, no matter what certain people might think of that. I don't even like Jazz but I am the kind of person who would accept collaboration with Jazz musicians just to piss off these narrow minded people who criticize us all the time anyway. It does not interest me, life is too short to care about public opinions. Those who already consider HHR mainstream should take a look at EMI or CBS first.
* ”Dim Carcosa” is a true combination of greatness, musically, lyrically, and even lay-out wise. So, how is this even possible? It must have taken you very long time to prepare this assault? How did you get the whole package to fit together so perfectly?
-Details matter to us. Every aspect has to contribute to each other in order to achieve a harmony. As for the cover: through a ball one can see fortified Carcasonne, the walls protecting the medieval city in the South of France. It could also be mythical Carcosa as no glimpse is offered inside the city and the walls protecting the mysteries within. The atmosphere is vague and dim, mysterious. One can see a Lake as is to be found near real Carcaso but also as is described by Chambers when he wrote about mythical Carcosa…As in the lyrical concept myth and historical facts meet. The cover also is presented as a medieval booklet (it is a copy of a real leather medieval work!) referring to the liner notes I have written. “DIM CARCOSA” is presented as a book. Music and lyrics are dealt with in a similar detailed way and have to contribute to each other as well. As one can see a lot of attention is put on every detail, music and packaging…
Let's go back to the early days of A.R., I've read that you have written a book about a bm-band which were strongly satanic but also cursed… members were dying etc. Do you feel A.R. was cursed as you surely have had lots of problems during the years?
-The bad luck continues to this very day. Not only boycotts, bomb threats, members dying etc but also little practical things usually turn against us. For instance: we just returned from a European winter tour. Of all seasons the heating of the bus decided to break down during our winter tour which means we had to sleep in a bus in temperatures of 18 below zero where all drinking water was frozen. One of our support acts went home because the vocalist got very sick. In fact we all got sick but we are crazy and too stubborn to give up so we continued the tour under bad conditions. Heard about the blizzard in Milan recently? This snow storm causing many accidents and complete chaos inside the city? We were in the middle of it all! We already had put up our gear on stage and had finished our sound check but too many accidents were happening and people did not dare to leave their house! We even had to help fans whose car had slided down a ditch. Chaos. When we finally arrived at the French club police closed the place down because of drugs etc. etc…Indeed, I could write many books about the things happening to us, trivial little things and dramatic fatal matters, we always have our share.
After the demo, you released ”Evil Prevails” 7”EP on your own Fallen Angel Records… what you think about it nowadays? How many copies were sold and did you ever release anything else on Fallen Angel Records? Was that EP released by any other label? I did order a copy from Wild Rags and I have a feeling that WRR could have had some kind of license deal… do I remember right?
-You remember right. We pressed twice copies of the “EVIL PREVAILS” ep which sold out rapidly. A few copies reached the States and South America which resulted in WILD RAGS RECORDS releasing the ep with different cover and pics in North America and WARMASTER RECORDS releasing the ep as a split-lp in South America. Personally I still like those early A.R. recordings. Drummer Walter finds the production too weak, especially concerning his own parts but personally I still enjoy these sessions. The ep sounded raw, pure and very dark. The primitive approach has its very own charm. I can listen our music as a fan still, not minding certain lacks, the other members on the other hand mostly see and judge our work through professional eyes…A few thousand copies of the “EVIL PREVAILS” were sold. How many exactly I will never know as I had no control over WWR or WARMASTER. I was delighted they released it in their scenes. It helped spreading our name in the early years of our career when vinyl still was king. Through FALLEN ANGEL RECORDS we never released anything else. A pity may be but keep in mind we actually never intended to start a label, we just had to do it ourselves in order to get our vinyl out…
After ”Evil Prevails”, two split Eps and one split LP were released and as I have sold all my copies years ago, I really don't remember all the facts, except labels Molon Lave and Warmaster, but how did you get all those chances and do you know how many copies were actually sold? Did you get all the money/stuff that was promised?
-WARMASTER, MOLON LAVE, MIDIAN CREATIONS and WWR kept their part of the deal, we received the promised free copies. How many copies were sold I will never know. How we got all those chances? All through personal underground contacts. I spent most of my time writing letters, my contacts were worldwide. Some of the people did not even have a label when I already was in touch with them, it was like a scene where bands and labels were growing together, the trouble only started the moment we began releasing cd's and bigger money was involved.…
What you think about the other bands on those split-releases, honestly?
-The bands involved were choices made by the record companies. We had no say in the matter, nor did we care, actually. Honestly. Some bands were better than others. But that depends on a person's taste…
Have you seen or do you know any bootleg releases of A.R., and what you think about such?
-I have seen bootlegs in the East of Europe. Even “BLASFEMIA ETERNAL” bootleg sweaters in Poland, also came across bootleg shirts in Greece and Israel. I can imagine the East European and South American markets being flooded by bootlegs. I do not mind that. On the contrary, I'd like to lay my hands on those for my own collection. In Poland our drummer traded his DARKTHRONE shirt for that bootleg A.R. sweater. Of course we do not earn a penny from these releases but then again we never earned anything from our official releases either, so what's the difference?
Nowadays people are selling old and cult releases, especially in vinyl format, for very high prices… what you think about this? I have sold lots of rare/cult stuff for fair prices even if I knew those items could be sold 5-10 times higher prices after a few years, so am I stupid because I didn't do that?
-Of course you are stupid. Just teasing. Well, I once saw at a Metal market old underground contacts selling the “EVIL PREVAILS” ep for a high price. Strange, as I remember we traded our copies. I sold my last two “EVIL PREVAILS” copies for a normal price…So I am as stupid as you are. Actually I don't feel good making a business out of these records that were made with no commercial intentions in the first place, probably I'm blinded by naive old underground principles from time to time and eaten by nostalgia.
Unfortunately I have asked this kind of question from many other bands but here we go again; Why did you sign a deal with After Dark? What did they promise and what did they actually do and were they only label that wanted to sign you?
-"THE DIABOLIC SERENADES" was released through AFTER DARK (CD version) and MIDIAN CREATIONS (LP format). Licensing deals were signed to guarantee a worldwide distribution (OSMOSE, MORBID NOIZZ). AFTER DARK turned out to be a total rip off and eventually ceased to exist leaving no penny for the band that had invested its own money in the recordings, artwork and photo sessions. We expected honesty as one of the persons of AFTER DARK was a very close friend. The moment money came in he could not resist temptation and ripped everyone, including his partner and us, off. We decided to sign to AFTER DARK as we still believed in the underground dream, wanted to do things by ourselves with friends and believed that dedication and authenticity would be enough to make it in the scene. How wrong we were!
You have been in the ug-scene for a long time so can you tell me 2-3 ”old” metal bands which would have deserved an album deal but never got it? What you think about Blaspherereion, what did happen to them?
-I remember playing several gigs with BLASHEREION, a Death/Grind band from the French speaking part of the land. We even toured France together. Good memories. What happened to them? They changed line up and became ENTHRONED. They even changed instruments, I recall the bass player/vocalist Dan of BLASPHEREION moving to drums and change his name into Cernunnos. Of course to me he remained Dan Vandeplas. I never used artist names not for me, not for the others: Samoth of EMPEROR remained Thomas Haugen, Magus Wampyr Daoloth of NECROMANTIA remained George Zaharopoulos, Necromayhem of ROTTING CHRIST stayed Sakis Tolis and so on. Anyway, Dan was a great guy who always appreciated/respected ANCIENT RITES. A shame he committed suicide.
What was the reason to release a split EP with Enthroned after ”The Diabolic Serenades” album? This is the only EP I have never heard so can you tell me some details about it?
-As far as the A.R. part was concerned it was the same track that already was released as a split with RENAISSANCE. This release was most of all a way for AFTER DARK to introduce their new signing ENTHRONED. It was a picture disc ep but it offered nothing new to the old AR fans except a nice looking collector's item.
I think the deal with Mascot Records was an important step in your career, how did that deal come true and did everything go as planned with them?
-It was a huge step forward in matters of distribution. The deal came through via Wim Baelus, an underground reporter writing for AARDSCHOK magazine. He was always writing bad reviews on MASCOT bands. At one point the label owner asked him what he DID like then and Wim sent him a compilation tape featuring ANCIENT RITES. He happened to notice us on that compilation and when he found out we were still looking for a label he instantly offered a deal. Rest is history. They were a good label but at one point they started focussing on a different style and A.R. did not receive the same attention anymore as our work did not really fit to their current direction. We still were signed to MASCOT for one more album but believed we would be better off on another label and that is when HAMMERHEART came in, negotiated with MASCOT and bought our contract.
Mascot re-released the debut album with bonus track ”From Beyond the Grave (pt II)”… is that re-release otherwise musically identical with the debut or has it also been remixed?
-The re-release has a different band picture, a slight change in the front cover and contains a track we recorded in Greece for MOLON LAVE RECORDS remixed. The debut album never was decently distributed so we applauded this re-release.
Many tracks from your debut are often considered cult bm-tracks but ”Blasfemia Eternal” has been ignored by many… do you have any opinion about this?
-It depends from country to country. May be how well the album was distributed? But it is true opinions are divided. In Portugal for instance specially the tracks from the first album ‘THE DIABOLIC SERENADES' receive extra approval but in Finland mostly tracks from ‘BLASFEMIA ETERNAL' gain the most success when it comes to our older work (specially the ‘TOTAL MISANTHROPIA' track). Some say our debut represents best the old A.R. while others prefer the second as a classic. I think that is positive: it proves we never were afraid to change with each release. Both albums are considered B.M. classics in the underground but it is true they differ from each other in many ways. Only positive.
After the 2 nd album, you had some serious problems with line-up and the Euro Tour was handled with several guest-guitarists… one of them being Erik Sprooten who later became a permanent A.R.-guitarist… was he the best session guitarist or was he the only one available after all?
-They all had their very own style. Erik is an old style guitar hero, we specially liked his solo's, he's an over the top Metal guitarist. when he phoned asking to become a permanent member we had just organised auditions. He had to take part in them in order to give the others a fair chance but immediately blew everyone away. In a way the others stood no chance.
In 1998 was released ”Fatherland”, and people and press finally called more attention to you… and it really is a great album, but how did the old fans react to it? It's different compared with previous releases and there must have been some old fans who didn't like it at all, am I right?
-With each release there are people claiming they prefer the previous album but still we sell more with each release. I know sales are not a barometer for quality but still, those who like to see us fail predict our end after each album nevertheless still we are here, stronger than ever…I think that the essence still is very much the same, only the level of our work is higher from a professional point of view. One cannot force an artist to make the same painting over and over again, same goes for us musicians. Of course there should not be a turn of 200 degrees or a drastic change but I think A.R. remained loyal to what it stood for, evolution hozever is inevitable. I still believe for 100% in our old work but one simply becomes better musicians as time passes by and expectations grow bigger too.
Jan Yrlund was playing on ”Fatherland”, but how did you find him? It was quite a funny to notice that a guy I saw on stage with Prestige in late 80s, was playing in Ancient Rites…
-We got together through an advertisement in a Metal magazine. The track ‘DEATH MESSIAH' caught Jan's interest. He related to this old Metal feel that could be detected in our work, a touch he could not find in most of the modern B.M. acts. All current A.R. members have been active in the scene for many years in different bands, actually we are a bunch of international veterans who survived their own bands…
Another Finn on ”Fatherland” is Mika Luttinen but more than his appearance on ”Fallen Angel” song, I'm interested in things which are connected to him in one way or another… first, he has been married with Claudia for some years now, but did you date with her before Mika did? What is she like? At least Mika was so much in love with her that many people here in Finland were worried about Mika's mental health and about his ”evil” reputation after earlier statements like ”there is no such thing as love”, etc. You were Mika's best man at his wedding, right?
-We indeed were rather close before they got married but that is another story, not very relevant. Claudia is an intellectual person. She works at the Belgian embassy in foreign places and often together with known politicians. She leads a double life and has different interests after hours. She undergoes a metamorphosis on all fronts (even appearance). She is also extreme in some ways so they fitted well together. Mika called me to investigate a bit about her person before they got engaged. I spoke positive about her, they met, got married and indeed I was their best man. Meanwhile they separated and are divorced but to know the details you must ask them. Mika moved to Finland but we remained close friends.
You've said one sign of the so called ”rock star attitude” is when artist answers interviews with answers like ”yes”, ”no”, ”fuck you”, and this is exactly what Mika did when he was answering some interviews in mid 90s, so… is he a rock star?
-As I said Mika is a good friend of mine. From friends you accept more. Besides he's as crazy as I am, only differently, so he can live his rock star dream, in the end it's a game for him I guess. He likes to be this antisocial fuck sometimes. Great company…I remember when we toured Finland there was a TV crew backstage filming. When they recognized Mika they asked him something in Finnish. He answered in Flemish saying he was only our roadie and did not know Finnish ah ah ah!
Ok, let's move on. You've said that pen is mightier than sword. What you think about Slayer's ”Die by the Sword” then?
-One can kill and conquer. But all empires fall. But Socrates or Plato's words are remembered generation by generation and appeal to a more intellectual audience, an audience that usually really rules the world, if not always obviously in charge in the open they are the ones pulling the strings behind the screen. “Die by the Sword” is a great track and has a sense of truth but on the long run I think the pen is mightier…The pen can re-write history by those who won a war. After W.W. II the world could witness the National Socialist leaders on trial accused of crimes against humanity and being executed. Strange in this matter is that somehow everyone seemed to forget that the U.S.S.R. had concentration camps in which they locked away people with different views and prosecuted Jews as well. No one mentioned the U.S.A. dropped atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (with consequences for the population to this very day: deformed people still getting born caused by the radiation). If the III Reich had won who would be considered war criminals and who would have been on trial in Nьrnberg you think? The very same people who now put the III Reich leaders on trial. It is an ancient game of War. Vae Victis! Woe betide the conquered. Do not misunderstand: I do not appreciate cruelty committed by ANY camp but I hope you catch my point. As far as the war in former Yugoslavia is concerned the world decided to put the blame on Serbia and Milosevic only, the man is on trial today but no one investigates the murders committed by U.C.K. and other Terrorist Moslem Groups. War crimes were committed by ALL sides. History books will convict Milosevic only and that is how future generations will see the Yugoslavian matter without asking themselves if there were others to be found guilty as well. My point is: in a war NO ONE IS INNOCENT! Still media praise the ones who win a war as they are controlled by them. The masses do not question anything and simply follow and accept everything what is taught in history books (which are written by the winning side). A prove that ON THE LONG RUN the pen can guide people into a direction and control the mind more effectively than the sword. It is true however the sword is important at the first stage to take control but to MAINTAIN it takes people who know how to deal with a pen to ease the crowds…
What you think about Cradle of Filth… are they black metal? You have told that they were in a cue outside the club to see you play in London, and that must have been in '92/'93, I think. Now they are selling lots of albums ( too many, according to many ”true evils” in the scene) but after all, they are still very much the same C.O.F. musically they were back then… unlike e.g. Moonspell, which have had nothing to do with their original concept for ages… Any opinion?
-I am not into C.O.F., not because I don't consider them not underground enough or anything. Of course they are not underground but that is not my guideline. I listen to DEPECHE MODE too and they are everything but underground. But C.O.F.'s work/image does not appeal to me. Guess I am too old and not enough into fairytales for appreciating their approach to a full extent. It is not my cup of tea. I prefer the pioneers when I wish to listen to Black Metal. But who am I to judge? A minority! Because everyone will remember C.O.F. as Black Metal in the future and only very few people will remember MAYHEM, BEHERIT, DARKTHRONE or ANCIENT RITES the so called true bands…Who remembers Glen Matlock, the bass player of SEX PISTOLS who played on most of their “hits”? Everyone believes Sid Vicious was the man who did it all, he was more glamorous and therefore did appeal to a wider audience. A band like A.R. appeals too much to an intellectual crowd, but it are the non intellectual young masses who make a band big, those who settle for bloody vampires, big tits and theatre, who go for extremities and shock. Normal for their age. Why should they care about my bleedin' LORD BYRON or BAUDELAIRE? Why should they take an interest in my more balanced approach when they prefer splatter, gore, blood and sperm? These are facts. C.O.F. are clever, play it by the game and are surrounded by the right businessmen. We can criticize them as much as we like or label them untrue a thousand times. They don't have to get up early in the morning to go to their job, 99% of the other musicians in the scene have to or there will be no bread on their table. My opinion on C.O.F. is not even relevant and they will not lose any sleep over it, they are right. We toured together, played several gigs with one and other. Right from the start it was obvious they had a different approach to matters, well, it worked out for them...Our drummer is into their work but then again he is into this neo Black Metal thing while I am stuck to the pioneers, ALL a matter of taste my friend.
What you think about the mighty Greek bands… Necromantia, Rotting Christ and Varathron… what you think about their latest material and careers?
-I still rate albums like ‘Thy Mighty Contract' (ROTTING CHRIST), ‘His Majesty At the Swamp' (VARATHRON) or ‘Vampyric Rituals/Ancient Pride' (NECROMANTIA) high as underground pearls. I am not that familiar with the current releases though. Stephan of VARATHRON wrote me they are working on a new album. Of course I wish all of them the best of luck.
I know you had problems when the Norwegian scene was getting more attention with arsons, suicides and murders/manslaughters… people (and authorities too?) connected you with those things, but when you look back and think about all that shit… what you think about it today? And what you think about the Norwegian bands that were ”so hot” back then? You were supported by the Scandinavian scene even if you never participated in satanic terrorism… but did you ever get, even one, threat because you didn't act like them?
-No. The only real threats (bomb threats) we ever received came from anonymous “heroes” who did not consider us politically correct enough or anti-Black Metal minded people. Of course there were those people (non Norwegians!) who were disappointed we did not “sound or act Norwegian”. Who said they liked our appearance but not our work! They saw the so called Norwegian attitude as standard. Before we knew it the scene was flooded with bands from Mexico to Czech Republic to Malaysia pretending to be Norwegian. If they were NOT Norwegian and people pointed that out suddenly they discovered ancestral blood lines that were leading them straight to Norway, oh miracle! All roads no longer leading to Rome as the old saying goes but leading to Oslo! The Norwegians theirselves respected the fact we were an ancient, original band who did not jump on their bandwagon. Why the hell should we have? I remember when the whole world pretended to be Viking I told one of the IMMORTAL lads that in the region of Leuven where I live Vikings suffered one of their biggest defeats (which was true!) in history and that their invasion was halted. Further more I told them that I cultivate my own roots instead of trying to be a Viking and they really respected that as they understood the strength of the Celtic/Germanic culture too.
Your lyrics deal with historical/occult facts instead of fiction… and it's an inexhaustible source for lyrics, but what does these historical and occult facts mean to you in general?
-Obviously there is a connection between our band's name and lyrical approach. The ANCIENT part is referring to our fascination towards Ancient/Medieval civilizations and empires which are forever buried by time and dust while the RITES stand for our connection with the Darkside. Ever since my childhood I'm consumed by these topics and obviously this fascination has a big impact on our work. My life has been a constant quest for historical knowledge. Therefore I consider myself lucky being able to travel a lot to experience and witness with my own eyes everything I learned about as a child through history books and literature. I have travelled through the Sahara desert by camels and visited remains of ancient civilizations in desolate places, I have entered the temple of Baalberith where thousands of years ago human (infant) sacrifices took place, descended down Portuguese crypts, visited ancient Greek temples, wandered through the remains of the streets of ancient Rome, travelled through Spanish mountains by horse, walked through medieval cities all over the East and West of Europe, saw where Joan of Arc was burned at the stake, followed rivers surrounded by castles that are silent witnesses of the splendour of the Middle Ages, was in the center of Mycenian, Fenician and Carthaginian War civilizations whose walls and streets much to my surprise still were quite intact, was surprised by the artistic aspects of the ancient Minoan Empire and was overwhelmed by the splendour of Asia Minor etc. The most spiritual and timeless moments I experienced when being on ancient/medieval locations. It is an advantage I live in a small medieval city in a house which is a protected monument because it is a part of a medieval abbey. When I look outside my window I see the middle ages, a few houses next to ours there is some kind of a bridge where bats live, all very picturesque. Concerning the Darkside I have to say I relate to certain philosophies of Satanism but in a symbolic (non religious/non dogmatic) way. A code based on knowledge, wisdom, strength and self respect. A down to earth, realistic approach guided by own instincts and principles. I find it important to avoid the same traps one can find in other religions. I do not believe in any higher (or lower for that matter) entities. Personally I relate to ancient traditions, therefore also Paganism catches my interest/sympathy. All this (and more) is reflecting on the lyrics I write and our work in general.
Have you ever faced the situation that something you have considered historical fact has been ”rewritten” when new evidences have been found? Have you ever written lyrics which became false facts?
-Something similar happened to me on my studies concerning the templar Knights Order: I came across TWO different dates referring to the same event. I picked one source and before I knew it I found myself “on trial” in a German Metal encyclopaedia accusing me of re-writing history. Annoying and ironic isn't it? Accused by those who investigated not as much and settled for the first date? From now on I will mention different sources to avoid situations like these. One cannot be careful enough when writing about history. Also recently there were historians in France trying to rehabillitate Gilles de Rais who was accused of child murder/rape, in one of the songs on “DIABOLIC SERENADES” we wrote about this historical figure, describing his passion for art, music, his bravery and noblesse but also describing some of the horrors he committed. Now there are historians who claim the accusations of pedophilia/child rape/murder were entirely false. I know the French King and church wanted his head and wealth and probably they did not even care about his perversity which I think they only used as an excuse (royalty and noblesse could afford anything during the middle ages anyway: I do not believe they would care for a disappeared child born from poor parents) but I would like to know what is true and what is not. Historical facts being re-written all the times I do find annoying as I want my lyrics to be a 100% accurate.
I have read some A.R. interviews and ”Bokkerijders” is the name which is mentioned almost every time… and you have told that one of your relatives was a part of that group. I have got a feeling that ”Bokkerijders” was kind of ”hobby” for wealthy citizens looking for heroism and action… is this interpretation total blasphemy for them?
-It was not considered heroic to be a member of the “Bokkerijders”. Besides people of all social classes paricipated in that Coven. When captured they were tortured and executed as they openly praised satanism in a time when Christian belief ruled social life. I find it appealing to know that one of my ancestors belonged to this mysterious Order but no one else in the family really shares this view as the majority of people considered them as criminals who robbed and burned churches and whose souls was lost for eternity. Later investigations were leading to France, a country preparing for the revolution in the 18th century and some historians believe there could be a connection with French revolutionary groups who were anti-Christian as well and who supported the Bokkerijders to destabilize the country. It was weird to see that people of all classes belonged to the Bokkerijders, from carpenters to doctors, mayors to farmers. This presence of nobility within their ranks I do find rather strange and not adding to the theory of the French Revolution link. Strange also is the strong Satanic character of the Bokkerijders, their Rites of the dead hand, the spitting on the Holy cross even just before execution, the Goat Worship…There are different theories circulating, a link with ancient male orders but also women have been found within their ranks. The myth surrounding the Bokkerijders remains intact as many questions never were answered. Why would a rich mayor go rob a church knowing what cruel fate will await him when getting caught? Why this strong Satanic aspect until the very end? Was there a connection with the foreign revolutionaries? Why where there two peaks (for decades there was quietness suddenly a new generation of Bokkerijders did arise, stronger than ever before!)? Was there a connection between both generations? Different motives or ideologies? Even methods did differ. Dutch Bokkerijders often delivered letters in which they required money from their rich victims, Flemish Bokkerijders often warned their victims they would strike!!! Literally translated Bokkerijder means Goatrider: the people believed the Devil himself delivered Goats to the gang which they could use as transport. Seated on their backs these Goats would fly them around at night to their next target. This legend was created as they often did strike several times a night on places which were on a big distance from each other. People believed it was the same gang and therefore considered supernatural transportation. In reality it was different groups working in different regions. Well structured groups with military ranks. Very bizarre. Often I wonder if Satanism was the real goal, loot often was pure, terror was the weapon and they cultivated fear. I don't even know what happened to my ancestor. His name even appeared in one of our most famous comic series in a book dealing with The Bokkerijders. Probably he got caught and was executed like most of those who were suspected to be a member…
You have also told about fanatic A.R. fans who were hanging around wherever you were going. Do you still have such fanatic fans? Are they still reforming ”Bokkerijders”?
-Fans do not recognize me that easily anymore as I usually wear my hair in a tail off stage and hair style does change a person's look a lot. Years ago when I went to the army to fulfil my military service and shaved my head most people did not recognize me. Anyway, I don't dress as much in leather off stage as I used to in the past. Usually I wear casual clothes like bomber jackets, Lonsdale polo's, regular jeans and Doc Martens: comfortable street wear and people do not connect that way of dressing with Black Metal. Also I don't hang out in typical clubs as I used to in the past, today I prefer a different way of going out. I prefer trips to historical locations, often plan cultural city trips (right now I'm planning cultural trips to Czech Republic and Scotland). Just hanging around in clubs getting drunk does not happen often anymore, it does not offer me that same thrill as it used to. Mostly I spend times at places where people do not know who I am. And of course I like to taste local beers and wines but usually in a medieval environment where classical music is played. My hunger for knowledge is bigger than trying to impress fellow Metalheads. After all I'm just as common or crazy as anyone else, rock star games are not my cup of tea and make me feel rather uncomfortable. Example? I remember recently I had to take a piss and backstage there were no toilets, so I had to use the public one. Before I knew it I had a queue next to me while I was taking a piss! Young boys and girls asking for an autograph not even letting me finish! One girl kissed me so I had wet Doc Martens haha! Indeed they are waterproof!!! Rather silly situations I find myself in because of this so called “fame” sometimes. On another occasion I was sick in the toilet throwing up (a waiter at a Metal bar had offered me free strong drinks every two minutes and I had “one” too many). Suddenly a guy tapped on my shoulder while I was with my head in the toilet: “Excuse me, aren't you Gьnther of ANCIENT RITES?” Me: “Buuarrrkh, Yes I am, Buuuaaarkh!!!” Him again: “Nice to meet you, I'm a fan of your work!” Me: “Buuuaaark, thank you, nice to hear buuaarkkh!”. Very good first impression I must have left there. I could tell a lot uglier stories but let us remain decent J …
You have also faced serious problems because your lyrical concepts, using medieval European flags on stage, etc. For me it sounds little odd, but I think those fundamental Islamic activists etc. were serious… Do you still face problems because of that?
-Of course. We played a gig recently at a club near my home. The club authorities refused to take responsibility even so they did not allow the gig to happen in their venue! So one of the guys working there had to take all responsibility and organised it on a different location. Fences were placed everywhere and guards with dogs were on patrol. You see the fact we dared to criticize Islamic Fundamentalism had created a big fuss in the area, politicians labelling us Nazi, Arab youngsters promised to show up to destroy the place (as they already had done a week before at a rock concert), left wing activists showing up to protest against this so called Nazi concert, right wing activists showing up to fight the Islamic activists etc…In a way it had nothing to do with music anymore, an atmosphere of danger in the air. Windows got broke. But nothing serious happened. You see before the 11th of July it was perfectly possible to criticize Christian Fundamentalism, everyone considered it cool. But criticizing Islamic fundamentalism was not accepted and all these paranoid politically correct idiots were screaming murder turning it into a racial issue. Well, I hope they woke up when those planes crashed into those twin towers to see it was not a matter of skin colour but of religion and culture. It is safe to sing about how much you hate Christ but when we openly criticized Islam fanatism protests were reaching the radio stations that dared to play us…Certain cities we are not allowed to play anymore. At another show political leaders of the town (mostly Christian and socialist politicians) called for a meeting to study our lyrics and since they did not find anything forbidden they wrote in the contract we were not allowed to wave the medieval Flemish flag or to talk about history and cultural heritage between the songs. It felt like playing in the former U.S.S.R. or something. I guess certain authorities do not like the fact we describe an older identity than the Belgian one which is considered subversive and not PC (after all the Flemish and older identity is not well appreciated by certain people). A lot of fuss for an underground band that plays a couple of tunes I think!
Dealing with the previous, and this surely is a question people hate, but anyway… What you think about the European Union and the whole idea? Finnish marks and Belgian francs are history and Euro took their place… good or bad?
-Being a frequent traveller the Euro is a very practical matter. Of course it is pity a bit of the “local colour” is lost due to the disappearance of our local currencies. This change brings both good and bad, like with everything in life…
Some politics and especially religious leaders have called this European integration ”the antichrist”, mainly because it has be seen very much the same what Hitler was trying to do 60 years ago, do you agree with them? And what you think about this ”new” wave of NSBM-bands, by the way?
-I believe in a European dream. So in that case I walk with the AntiChrist (again J ). Achieving a unity while at the same preserving the own typical traditions and culture of each European Nation. I will forever belong to my place of birth Flanders but I also see myself as a European citizen. No matter if I'm in Antwerp, London, Rome, Vienna, Moscow, Athens, Stockholm, Dublin or Paris, I'm always home. Each country has a history and culture to be proud of. Europe is the "old world" and therefore each land has ancient traditions. I travel a lot and have friends everywhere which enables me to taste from the local cultures and participate in it all. This way I understand people's roots better. Surely I am aware of the differences between the countries but I believe this makes Europe only more colourful, call it naive but I'm an idealist. I am not a politician nor am I into economics, the only thing I know is that I prefer to concentrate on what unites us instead of what divides us. Therefore I'm pleased this cold war between the East and West of Europe is over. The Berlin wall was political nonsense. That's why I was against the bombing of Yugoslavia, the idea of a European country under USA and Nato fire makes my heart bleed. Even despite the civil war in that country. We all are children of the same ancient Europe, there should be no animosity between us. With songs like "MOTHER EUROPE" or “ODE TO ANCIENT EUROPA” I make that clear. On the ANCIENT RITES albums "FATHERLAND" and “DIM CARCOSA” musicians from Holland, Suomi-Finland, Germany and Flanders (Belgium) are participating. In one of my other bands (DANSE MACABRE) musicians from Austria, Holland, Greece, Finland, Flanders and Serbia (Yugoslavia) take part. I believe I illustrate my "European Dream" quite well. I speak a few languages, if only I could speak EVERY European tongue. Europe offers thousands of years of history, forever it will be an inspiration to me. As far as the uprise of NSBM bands is concerned I guess many only do it for shock value as how it was with the satanic topic years ago. Extreme music attracts extreme views, I am used to to deal with extreme people. I guess it never was the intention of B.M. bands to be socially accepted all the way. And those who study esoteric occult matters will be aware of the Thule Organisation that helped the III Reich in power, to some there is a link between National Socialism and Satanism because of the Antichristian character both ideologies share. Of course Christianity was used to please the masses but most of the leaders of the system were Pagan or Anti-Christian. Others state Satanism is a path praising individuality, regardless cultural/ethnic background. And consider Satanism as a universal philosophical or religious matter. Again different interpretations are possible. To each his own. As far as A.R. is concerned we do not mix music and politics.
What do you think about the WTC terrorist strike… Islam against Christianity, Moslem world against Western world… where do you stand in this?
-I do not feel sympathy for any of the involved governments. As usual average people pay the price in all this. Being a universal traveller I have friends all over this globe, even in Irak and Jordan. Even there A.R. have supporters although they have to remain REALLY underground in order to avoid trouble with the religious leaders and authorities. Some Metal musicians I am in touch with from Iran have been put to court! So I do not feel much sympathy concerning Islam as it is one of the most intolerant religions I have faced on my travels. Due to the Islamic community the local Metal pub I used to hang out was closed (it was located in an area where mostly Islamic immigrants lived thery started a petition against the place and our mayor closed it down to please the Islamic community), IN MY OWN COUNTRY! This pisses me off. I know I don't hang out in clubs often anymore but at least I want to have a choice! I did not protest against their mosque either!!! I am aware not every Islamic person is an extremist so I am careful with condemning an entire group of people which is not my style but dangers should be recognized and certain fractions of the Islam religion groups have not been showing a lot of goodwill recently. We can laugh about TV preachers and lunatics of Christ but Islamic fundamentalist spread their danger from within and try to take as many non believers to hell with them as possible, they do not fear death as they believe to be rewarded by Allah anyway. On the other hand also the US government has not shown a lot of goodwill to those holding different views either. Playing World Police does create enemies and often they want to decide in matters which they do not comprehend. The war in Yugoslavia was an ancient conflict the US leaders could not fully understand. They simply gave away ancient holy ground which belonged to the local most ancient population. They handed it over to separatists who in the end were descending from the Islamic forces who had invaded the land centuries ago and who used terrorist means to achieve their goal. Do not misunderstand: I do not praise ANY genocide, cruelty I despise but often I see NATO as slaves to the US government taking sides in matters which are not our business. Their approach often is too one dimensional, too black and white while everything is a grey zone. Complicated matter. Of course I feel sorry for the people who died in those towers. At the same time I was surprised how a bunch of terrorists can create such a master plan changing the face of war forever. It was a holy day for terrorism. Where I stand? I fight those who would not hesitate to kill me, in that case I think Islamic fundamentalists would like me as their pray if they knew I do not believe in their dogma's. I can respect religion and tradition, madness I do not follow though. I have many friends in the USA, although I do not always agree with the politics of the US government of course I do not want to see innocent people die (on ANY side for that matter) and in those towers average people like you and me died for nothing. I do not wish anyone's death but I disliked the interview with an Islamic religious leader who has been living in my country for decades who simply stated “Well those people who died in the twin towers did not die for nothing. It was for a higher cause, they died for Allah. They don't know it as they are not Muslims but at least it's ok.” You know a person like that I'd like to send back to where he came from immediately. Those who think in such a primitive way and bite the hand that feeds them are not welcome in my book. They can be extreme as much as they want but I do not them in my back garden making plots against the very same people that offer them a hand…LIVE according to the Koran, be fundamentalist if you like but do it at home and don't try to impose your intolerant views to people who have nothing to do with it. Religion should be a matter of free choice.
Your deal with HHR must be a good opportunity for you, but you have said that also earlier some big labels were interested in you… can you name any of them and why did it take so long to finally get a deal with bigger label?
- Labels such as NUCLEAR BLLAST showed interest. People at CENTURY MEDIA told me the label was talking about signing us after the Dynamo Open Air gig. A German company (whose name slips my mind) that used to work with ACCEPT and LOU REED offered a production deal. Why it took so long? Don't know. Somehow labels always were talking about us but none of them lifted a finger in times when we were on the search for a label.
* The Musick of A.R. has evolved greatly through the years, specially after mr. Yrlund joined the band, still there's somehow the same intensity and basic feeling in all of your releases. So you, Gunther, must still have a very important role in the process of the musick making, even though you don't get credited for musick on the newer albums? Enlighten us also on roles of the band members on this songwriting process, would you?
-Our writing process is rather unusual as we often communicate through demo tapes (home recordings on a 4 or 8 track) as we live in different countries. Actually we only started writing new material a couple of months before the recording of “DIM CARCOSA” as we had been on the road often, had to deal with a line up change and were in the process of changing labels…It was a hectic process of locking ourselves up in our rehearsal room after we chose the best ideas of the demo tapes. There never is time for jamming or fooling around on our instruments, every rehearsal means an international trip and experiments need to happen at home, when we plan rehearsals they are really well planned and to the point, working hard to get it all tight. Now we are preparing to hit the road which means we will be spending weeks at our rehearsal place. Indeed, our way of working differs from others and the distance makes things more complicated but it is a challenge too that requires dedication. We all decide in the music but today it is mainly our guitarists who come up with ideas, especially Jan. Also because of financial reasons I do not get credits: the author's organization works this way that a big part of the credits go to lyricists. In order for the other musicians to receive a more fair share we divided lyrics and music, to divide things more equally financially, not that we talk about a lot of money here but it is a matter of dividing it in a better way.
I have never played any instrument so I'm not an expert with questions like this but many people, including me, have been wondering about the drum sound on ”Dim Carcosa”… why the drums have been ”trigged”
-Our way of recording the drums are similar to almost every band in the scene. When drums are triggered EACH and EVERY hit is equally loud or hard. No big deal. MORBID ANGEL does it, so do DEICIDE and most Death or Black Metal acts. I do not understand people pointing finger at us but accepting the same modern techniques from all other bands.
”Dim Carcosa” reached the 9 th position in the Dutch indie chart and I think the album has been selling very well, but what does the word ”success” actually mean to you? What is your goal with A.R.?
-Success is artificial. I am pleased to notice all this positive feedback of course. But I do not live on a cloud because of this current attention. Personally I think I have reached with A.R. what I wanted to reach. I see the work of A.R. available worldwide, in stores often having an own compartment next to legends such as AC/DC. Surely our fame cannot be compared to acts like AC/DC but as an artist I feel to have achieved what I wanted. We left our mark. Only a pity we are not able to live from our music, it is annoying to know a lot of money is circulating because of A.R. and that the artists themselves catch nothing but we know it is not a fair world we are living in. Because of this unfair situation guitarist Bart decided to end his music career years ago but where is he today? Working as a bouncer at nightclubs risking his life by fighting rap gangs and mafia people. He earns good money but his musical talent is no longer cultivated and he has no artistic pleasure anymore. I often hate I'm having to play this music industry game but from an artistic point of view I feel rich, also because of my travels (because of the band) I feel having gained a lot in life…
I have seen your gig, and I truly admire your attitude because you still play in small places and you told me after the gig that roots should always be remembered, but you must have an opinion about venues, what are among the best ones?
-In your country Nosturi is a very good venue. In England the London Astoria is quite good (backstage sucks though), Marquee was a legend. In Belgium Biebob is a great place to play. Germany has several great clubs. The basket ball stadion in Portugal is superb. In Holland 013 club is very good. Rodon in Greece is nice. Well, each land has great and shitty clubs and it certainly is a lot more comfortable to play good clubs that offer a nice stage and a good sound but I think it is important a band ALWAYS puts heart and soul into the gig, even when playing the most horrible shitholes…I remember playing in a big cellar of a villa once. It was a gig booked by old fans and they had achieved of having their old fave band in their very own cellar! It was not a live venue at all but the atmosphere was so great and the cellar was packed with such a fanatic audience that it did not matter. We played in front of thousands, we played in front of 5 people. All gigs should be treated equally by the band. That is professionalism.
* I have to ask if you still remember the Rusty Angel gig in Tampere, Finland? So if you do what were your feelings at this particular gig? I'm also highly interested in Jan's feelings, when playing in his old hometown? The crowd was really welcoming this ex-Prestige "star"…
-Yes, I remember my microphone not working during the first song. There was no stage at all actually so we had the crowd only half a meter away from us staring right in our faces but still I liked the atmosphere. A lot of people were there for such a small place. The sound was very raw one of Jans old friends told us, it inspired him to listen and play Metal again he said as he had moved to Hardcore, our gig had reminded him of the pure underground years of extreme Metal. Nice compliment that is. We have played Tampere recently with DANSE MACABRE, a great club with a sauna. Now that was very relaxing. It was a place with a very good sound, great stage. Peculiar how people were sitting at tables watching us but when we left the stage they gave us an ovation. Heartwarming actually. Funny incident was our Danse Macabre drummer and I were the last to go into the sauna so the club had already closed the hot water. We had taken a very hot sauna so imagine the contrast. Immediately we were awake. Pleasant infact. As far as Jan is concerned whenever we visit Finland he obviously feels very great. He told me it returning home brings back many memories to him. Meanwhile I know most of his old friends very well too. Somehow Suomi and specially Tampere became a little bit our second home in the North as well, as Jan still has an appartment there where we always stay. Got to know the town, people and places. I truly enjoy visiting Suomi…We toured your country twice and I like it more and more. On one of the nights I found myself alone in a blizzard. And no one was walking in the streets. It was a town close to the Russian border we played that night. I had to take my suitcase from the bus and it was a long walk. Strangely enough I really enjoyed the extreme cold and wild nature taking over and liked being on the streets in such circumstances. Whenever I'm in the South of Europe now I die from the heat and I used to deal with it very well as I often stay in Greece! Also because I have lived in temperatures of 19 below zero for several weeks in our broken tour bus last winter tour. It changed my biological system. People are freezing and I'm always feeling warm. Did many sauna's. I trapped myself joining the Finns for hours at night talking outside in the winter cold. During my first visit I was feeling cold all the time (not that Belgium is a warm country but still Lapland is a different story in winter). Guess I'm getting used to your ways. Time to return!
I have got two A.R. songs to my gsm-phone after seeing notes on your web-site… have you got any feedback dealing with this? Was it Jan's idea and why did you gave notes for those two songs (only)?
-I have the “FATHERLAND” tune on my portable. I think it was Jan's idea but why he picked those two songs you should ask him. I think it is because the “FATHERLAND” album was the only album he had appeared on at that time and of which he knew the notes best.
Your keyboard-player Domingo was kicked out of the band in late 2001… who made that decision? How did he take it?
-It was a band decision. We had to fire Domingo as we were no longer satisfied with his musical qualities. On “Dim Catrcosa” piano is perpormed by Oliver Philipps who is a classical musician. Live Domingo was not able to perform these parts on a similar level. The general discontent created a bad atmosphere in the band. He, from his part, was convinced he was doing a fine job though. A musician who does not admit his limitations will not improve so we had no choice but to fire him. Not a pleasant situation. We always liked the guy very much, he broke also personal contacts because of our professional decision. Understandable but a pity nevertheless as we had great times together. Still music comes first. New member is Davy Wouters who is known from OBLIVION and live performances with DANSE MACABRE. He is a born pianist/ keyboardplayer and has what it takes to play in the current ANCIENT RITES where keyboards are not just an instrument on the background any longer. Years ago we got introduced to his work when he opened with OBLIVION for ANCIENT RITES. Jan and I were aspecially impressed by the performance of both keyboardplayers and I remember writing Davy a congratulating letter. A pity that band never made it as they were ahead of their time. Isn't life peculiar that both keyboardplayers of OBLIVION joined DANSE MACABRE and one ended up with ANCIENT RITES as well?
Do you know what the earlier members, including Domingo, of A.R. are doing nowadays?
-PHILIP (guitars) died in a car accident. STEFAN (drums) committed suicide. JOHAN (guitars) became a teacher, once a year he plays live with his band that plays SIMPLE MINDS style. BART (guitars) became a bouncer at night clubs, shaved his head and looks twice as huge nowadays. PASCAL (guitars) joined the Navy and last time I heard from him he worked in a laboratorium. WATTIE (bass) moved to Holland, joined several esoteric groups (Hare Krishna) and currently focusses on Druidism and Celtic traditions, he became a father. FRANKY (guitars) I never saw again after he left the band. RAPHAEL (guitars) records his own Goth and Blues in his small home studio but somehow failed to release anything. RAF (keyboards) joined RAPHAEL in his musical projects. DOMINGO (keyboards) I've heard wants to release a solo album (Goth style) on which he plays all instruments to prove us wrong. Actually I hope all ex-members are happy with what they are doing. We have shared many things together and every each one of them contributed to the ANCIENT RITES story.
What is going on in the Dance Macabre-camp? You played in Tampere and there were some episode during the Medieval Art-gig, do you remember it and what was it about?
-I was watching their gig and suddenly guys were shouting things against MEDIEVAL ART as they did not like the vocalist too much (don't know if it was because of his stage act or anouncements between the songs). There was a verbal confrontation but as my Finnish is limited to songs of RIISTETYT and TERVEET KÜDET I could not understand what was going on. Before I know it the MEDIEVAL ART vocalist said through the microphone “Gunther, after the gig we are going to kick these guys who want to destroy the gig!!!”…After the gig one of the bouncers was talking to the MEDIEVAL ART vocalist and things cooled down. When we went on stage I noticed the anti-MEDIEVAL ART guys banging their heads to our songs and turned out to be A.R. fans who liked D.M. too… Very confusing…
Anything you would like to ask me? Go ahead!
-Yes, I wonder who you are, if I remember your face or not as it seems we have talked when I was in Finland. Are you that drunk guy who wanted to arm wrestle with me all night long? He had a love/hate relation with A.R., from one point he loved our work from the other he was always provoking us, calling me a coward as I did not care for arm wrestling, calling Jan a poser etc, drinking our beers. Being positive and negative at the same time. A bit like your questions so I wonder if you and him are the same guy. I notice certain similarities in your behaviour…That's ok, it did not bother me J . Schizophrenic attitude indeed! No matter, it's interesting.
-(Tommi): Hah, it wasn't me because I have never talked to you or drank your beer either. And during the Medieval Art gig it was me and my friend the vocalist was shouting at even if it was some stupid (fag)goth who was commenting their gig... Interesting indeed. And as for my questions, I think it's always better to ask what I really want to, being it negative or positive... I still respect Ancient Rites!
This has been a long journey but I still have two questions to ask… let me know your plans for 2002 and beyond!?
-A German agency wishes to organise another European headline tour. We will appear on several summer festivals. An Australian agency proposed a headline tour as well. And we are invited on a tour through South and Central America in the near future. DANSE MACABRE will release a mini album featuring video clips, A.R. is considering a live album, IRON CLAD will release its first full length and LION'S PRIDE are completing their material for their first album. I think we will not be home too often the following months.
You are always ”longing for the ancient kingdom”… could you explain me the meaning of this slogan, please!?
-It is a slogan symbolizing my longing for past times. The word Kingdom is merely symbolic and referring to heraldic times in history. In every day life I am not a royalist, actually I hope Flanders to become an independent Republic. Am I not entitled to my own bit of schizophrenia just like you? Was a pleasure talking to you, man. Hope to share a beer next time I'm in Suomi. If you are who I think you are this time you pay J !!! Just kidding, really enjoyed our talk. Take care.
AZAGHAL (Fin) download HERE
I have to admit that for a long time I didn't really take seriously the various bands this man has, but as time has gone by I've become a fan of Azaghal and Valar, so I thought that the man deserved some recognition and an opportunity to explain some things so here we go… One man has countless bands/projects, Insanity or genius? Very fukkin' interesting at least! A man who has more faces and forms than Satan himself… Narqath!
by Janne Valtonen
As you have quite a few different bands and projects going, I'm not even sure if I know them all, please list and introduce these. Also list the releases of your bands, and your personal opinion about the releases today.
-Ok, here we go:
AZAGHAL (1995 - )
DEMO I - 97
NOITUUDEN TORNI -demo - 98
KRISTINUSKO LIEKEISSД - demo - 98
-I'm quite satisfied with the "demo I" and "Kristinusko Liekeissä", but "Noituuden Torni" was a very embarrassing release. Anyone who has heard it surely will agree with me: synths definitely do not fit in Azaghal. What the fuck were we thinking about?
HARMAGEDON - 7" - 98 (Aftermath Music, ltd. 500)
-Our first professional release, I am still very satisfied with this release as well. This EP was re-released by Aftermath on coloured vinyl last year. Both versions are sold out.
MUSTAMAA - CD / 12" - 99
(Iso666 / Melancholy Prod, CD ltd. 1000, LP ltd. 300)
-Our debut album, originally released only on very limited LP by Melancholy Productions, later re-released on CD by ISO666. Our most primitive release both material and soundwise. I am very satisfied with this release & it was really special feeling to hold your debut LP in your hands for the first time. The LP version is long sold out. The CD version SHOULD be limited to 1000 copies, but by now I am pretty sure that the label has printed at least 2000 copies of the CD.
HELVETIN YHDEKSÄN PIIRIÄ - CD - 99 (Evil Horde)
-With this album Azaghal changed it's style somewhat as this is considerably faster and more "technical" (well, not really) than our previous releases. The sound & production is not quite what we wanted, but overall I am satisfied with this release as well. A very cold atmosphere on this one I think.
SPLIT CD W/ MUSTAN KUUN LAPSET - CD – 00
(Nocturnal Music)
- I think that our material on this split CD is maybe our best ever, "Inhimillisyyden Tuollapuolen" and "Black Terror Metal" are my personal favourites among Azaghal tracks. It's really too bad that we made the mistake and released these songs on a shitty label like Nocturnal Music and thus this CD is pretty hard to find
DEATHKULT MMDCLXVI - CD - 00
(Millenium Metal, ltd. 900)
-This is a collection of old demo and some unreleased material which for some reason or another never made it to the 2 first full-lengths. Sold out.
SPLIT CD W/ BEHEADED LAMB ("Suicide Anthems")
- CD - 01 (Millenium Metal, ltd. 900)
-These were tracks that were intended for our next full-length, but as they differed somewhat from the rest of the material we decided to release them somewhere else instead and the result was this split CD. The tracks on this split CD are a lot more melodic and "rocking" than any Azaghal stuff before or after this release. The production is the best we have ever had. This CD is also now sold out. The Azaghal tracks from the 2 split CD's have also been released on very limited vinyl by Blut & Eisen (under the title "Ihmisviha"). The vinyl is also now sold out.
HELWETTILÄINEN - 7" – 01
(Aftermath Music, ltd. 1000)
-2 new tracks "Helwettiläinen" and "Ihmissusi". The title track will also appears on the "Of Beasts and Vultures" CD but as a re-recorded version.
OF BEASTS AND VULTURES - CD - 02 (Evil Horde)
-SHOULD be out by the time you are reading this. Finally, the 3rd full-length album. I think this album is a pretty logical follow-up to "Helvetin Yhdeksän Piiriä". I think that the song material on this CD is mostly OK, but we were not able to capture the right atmosphere in the studio, so I am not 100% satisfied with the result. "Of Beasts..." is also the first one to feature our new lead guitarist JL Nokturnal. The first 1000 copies of the CD come in a special A5 sized digipack. After the recordings of this album drummer Kalma left the band which was probably the best decision for both parties. - The latest Azaghal news are that we have found a new drummer & we are already composing material for the 4th Azaghal full-length since we don't want there to be another 3 year long wait between full-lengths. There has also been some talks of doing some kind of split release with Misanthropy (USA).
HIN ONDE (1995 - )
WELL OF THE HIGHEST KNOWLEDGE - demo - 98
(released as Svartalfheim)
-This was pretty much just a humour release with totally over the top viking vocals and obvious Storm / Isengard rip-offs. We were so drunk when we recorded this that I actually have no memory of doing this. Line-up: Narqath - Vocals, Guitars, Bass / Wircki - Synths / Kalma - Drums
AHTI'S DEPTHS - demo - 98
-This is a re-recording of the first demo in a professional studio with some new tracks & the silliest songs from the first demo dropped off. This is still quite humorous stuff, but I think it's quite Ok release with a high entertainment value.
FIERY SEPTEMBER FIRE - 7" – 99
(Aftermath Music, ltd. 500)
-Our first more serious release, on this release we dropped the Isengard / Storm influences and tried to create something more original, still staying in the realm of catchy folk influenced metal. The track "Troll and Tom" on this EP is definitely among Hin Onde's best ever. This EP was re-released by Aftermath Music last year on coloured vinyl. The original version is long sold out, but some copies of the re-release should still be available from some distros.
SONGS OF BATTLE - CD - 00 (Aftermath Music)
-Quite a big change in style. This CD also introduced new members Jani Loikas (bass) and Jani Hytünen (main vocals). I am pretty satisfied with this album, but of course there are several things I would do differently now, but overall it turned out quite ok considering all the trouble we had with equipment in the studio.
WYRD (1997 - )
UNCHAINED HEATHEN WRATH
- demo / demo CD 00
OF REVENGE AND BLOODSTAINED SWORDS
- demo CD – 01
HEATHEN - CD - 02 (Millenium Metal, ltd. 900)
-The first Wyrd demo consists mostly of stuff that I wrote for a new Hellcult demo, but then the drummer decided to quit that project so I recorded them by myself and released them under a different name. The first demo is quite varying stuff, some of the songs are (musically) pretty straight forward darkthroneish black metal while some of them are more epic stuff. The second demo concentrates more on the epic side. I am very satisfied with both demos & also with the full-length which takes the epic elements to their extremes as it consists of only 1 over 50 minutes long track. Out of all my projects I think Wyrd has received the best feedback and of course it's very important project for me personally since it's my solo project.
VALAR (1997 - 2001)
SPLIT TAPE W/ WIND - demo - 97
WINGS OF DARKNESS - demo – 97
TOWARDS THE GREAT UNKNOWN - demo - 98
ARRIVAL OF THE DRAGONLORD - demo - 98
HIDDEN PATHS - demo - 99
MAGIC AND WYRMFIRE - CD - 01 (Oaken Shield)
-I had originally already stopped Valar in 99, but then few years later Oaken Shield contacted me and inquired about the possibly of releasing some of the demos on CD. As I wasn't very satisfied with the demos I decided to re-record the best tracks from them and the result was "Magic and Wyrmfire" CD. I am satisfied with the song material, but especially the mixing could have been handled better. After the release of this CD Valar has returned to it's tomb and I see no reason to summon it back to life anytime soon.
-I also sung & played guitar on the demo and 1st CD of OATH OF CIRION, but I never wrote any music for OOC, so it wasn't my project although many people have that misassumption. I was more like a session member & I am no longer involved in the project.
You've conspired with quite a few different labels. Why so many different? Have there been some difficulties with the labels? Any rip-offs? Have you been satisfied with the labels?
-There aren't any specific reasons why we have worked with so many different labels, we have just sort of been trying different labels to find the most suitable for Azaghal. The only label that I am very unhappy with is Nocturnal Music who released the split CD with MKL. The best label in my personal opinion has been Millenium Metal / Solistitium Records. There is lots of bad rumours circulating in the underground about Carsten who runs the label, but at least with us he has always been very honest and fast to work with.
Some of the labels you've co-operated with are quite unknown and extremely interesting, please give some info about the following, your opinions of their work and some insight to the deals: ISO 666, Evil Horde, Blut und Eisen, Oaken Shield.
-ISO666 (ex-Melancholy Promotions) is a Greek label, they released our debut album "Mustamaa" (Melancholy in vinyl and ISO666 in CD format). About Blut & Eisen I can't tell you much since I haven't really been in contact with them at all. Carsten of Solistitium handled the deal with them & I must say I am very satisfied with their work (the vinyl release "Ihmisviha"). Oaken Shield (ex-Chanteloup Creations) is a division of French Adipocere Records, their promotion is non-existing but the contract terms are pretty good. Evil Horde is a Brazilian label and the deal we have with them is excellent, their promotion and distribution in Europe isn't the best possible but I don't care that much. They work very professionally, although sometimes very slowly.
As your new CD is coming through Brazilian Evil Horde, you must be satisfied with their work, so will you do some more releases for them? How did they become interested in Azaghal? Have they given you sufficient studio budgets good royalties etc.?
-Yes, we will record 2 more albums for Evil Horde. I sent them the "Kristinusko Liekeissд" demo back in '98 and they liked it and offered us a deal. The studio budgets and royalties are very good, better than some bigger and better known labels have offered us. The only negative aspect with Evil Horde is that they are sometimes very slow in responding but as long as they put the albums out and pay our royalties etc. I can't complain that much.
When I first heard of Azaghal and Svartalfheim they were mentioned in a kind of humorous and degrading manner, and I got the picture that you and your bands weren't really respected inside the Finnish scene. Someone even once told me that Azaghal is the most hated band in Finland??? Do you know any reasons for this and have you noticed this kind of attitudes? Any particular persons/bands behind this? How about today, are you a "respected" member of the Finnish scene like for example Horna etc.?
-I have never concerned myself with what people might think of me or my projects. Of course it's understandable that some people do not like the fact that I mix so many different ideological elements in my different projects, but that's entirely their problem and not mine. I have no need to explain my doings to anyone nor do I have any kind of need to prove anything to anyone.
In connection to the previous... I have a feeling that at least Azaghal has some kind of KULT-status and Valar is highly respected in some foreign circles, SO why do you think you get more attention and respect from abroad? Is it just so that no-one is a prophet in his own land?
-Emmä tiiä
Where the hell do you get the inspiration to write so different musick as e.g. Valar and Azaghal? How is it even possible for a man to have so different bands/projects? Are you a totally schizophrenic person or what?
-I have devoted nearly all my time to composing and recording music since '97. The inspirators for e.g. Azaghal and Valar should be pretty clear to anyone at least a bit familiar with the projects. I have quite a wide taste in music and this also shows in my song writing, I think it's very refreshing to play also totally different type of music in contrast to Azaghal. Having several projects also helps to keep each band more focused on what they are really about (you know, 10 minute ambient tracks or happy troll songs really wouldn't fit into the concept of Azaghal). Nowadays I don't have as much freetime on my hands as I used to and thus I am concentrating mostly on Azaghal and Hin Onde now.
While Azaghal, especially Mustamaa and Ihmisviha, kick some serious ass, no-one can really blame you for making it too original. Considering this, what is your view on originality? Is it necessary for a metal band to be truly original? Or is it so, as many people especially within the BM-scene claim, that the feelings aroused by musick are the most important thing? Do you have any comments for those individuals who blame you for ripping off older 90's and 80's bands?
-I personally think we have found our own style with Azaghal pretty much, although I have no problem confessing that when we started the band in '97 there was nearly as much "borrowed" riffs as there were original ones, but I do like to think that I have improved as a songwriter since those days. The "Mustamaa" LP / CD on the other hand was more like our homage / tribute to the older bands that inspired us, it was never meant to be original & I think it turned out pretty well. I agree 100% with the statement that the feeling and atmosphere evoked by the music are the most important things in Black Metal (and music in general). Not the playing skills, not the production nor the originality. It's better to just follow your instincts and play the kind of stuff you enjoy rather than trying to be "original just for the sake of being original".
As you've said in interviews (e.g. Archaic Age 'zine #2) that you're a satanist, please explain your views on life, death, morals, ethics etc. As there are many interpretations of satanism, what is yours? How do you practice the Dark Arts?
-To me satanism is a life philosophy, not a religion. I do not follow any existing religions or life-codes, I rather walk my own path.
As the answer to the previous question wasn't very revealing, I decided to give it another go. So… Well then, please explain your "path" a bit more. Where does it lead? How do you get there? What sights and wonders should be found along the path? Some insight please.
-I have no idea where it will lead and what will be discovered along the way, as I said earlier, I don't follow any specific rules (religions or even my own made), I just make the choices that feel right for me and see what happens. Of course the goal would be to enjoy life on this rotten piece of earth as much as possible as long as it lasts.
Do you see any connections between satanism, heathenism and fantasy-stuff? (As your different bands deal with all of these) How is it possible for you to write satanic lyrics for Azaghal, Heathen-stuff for Hin Onde? Are you a part-time satanist and a part-time heathen?
-A question that comes up in nearly every interview. I can't understand why it is so hard for people to understand that someone can be interested in several topics in his life? If I am a satanist I am not allowed to be interested in history and folklore? That's like saying that if you like Black Metal you are not allowed to listen to Death Metal. And I have never claimed to be heathen and Hin Onde is not a Heathen metal band, it's Folklore metal band. If you don't know the difference between those two words you should check your dictionary. Hin Onde (and Wyrd) are about telling tales of Nordic folklore, not preaching ancient religions.
Yeah, I know the difference, but I just had to ask. You're allowed to do what you please, but so am I. Then a bit tongue-in-cheek philosophy: I'm not quite sure whether Azaghal's "Luoti" tells about suicide or murder, so which appeals to you personally more? Why?
-"Luoti" tells about suicide, more precisely about encouraging one to it. I am tired of all these people complaining how miserable their lifes are and how they think about ending it. Well stop moaning and do it, you losers! So to me suicide doesn't appeal, I rather look at the difficulties in my life through the metaphor "strength through strife". Murder on the other hand is fascinating subject, I have lately developed quite an interest towards mass murderers and psychopaths and murder is also a subject that we will deal more in the future lyrics of Azaghal.
Azaghal's line-up has been quite the same from the beginning, but now Kalma has left the band, why? Have you had any conflicts inside the band? How "solid" has the camp of Azaghal been, are you all friends outside the band, or just playing together?
-When we started the band we used to be good friends, but times change and people change. Kalma no longer shared the same passion and level of dedication for Black Metal and Azaghal as me and Varjoherra, so it was best for us to part ways with him. I am not that much in contact with the other members nowadays, Varjoherra is pretty busy with his work and he became father just some weeks ago (12.6.) so he spends a lot of time with his family. JL Nokturnal runs his own professional studio and also plays in Nocturnal Winds and Yearning. We all get along well, as long as the other members do exactly like I say and always agree with me hehe.
How did you find the member, JL Nokturnal (Jani Loikas?)? Does he fit perfectly to Azaghal? What are the qualifications for Azaghal members? Would you accept e.g. colored or christian members? What about the drummer situation?
-We have known him for a long time and he has helped us out with bass and some lead guitar parts in the studio since '99 and now on "Of Beasts and Vultures" his contribution is significantly bigger than before, so it was only natural to make him an "official member" finally. The only qualifications for new members are that we have to get along with the person and that they share (at least to some extent) the same views as we do. There certainly couldn't be a christian member in Azaghal, and I can't imagine why any christian would want to join Azaghal anyway? I also can't imagine any colored persons in Azaghal.
As I would like to see Azaghal live I have to ask: Why haven't you done any gigs? You've had quite a stable line-up etc. and you must have received at least some proposals for gigs, so why haven't we seen you live even once?
-In the beginning it was purely lack of interest. Lately it has been more because of lack of time to rehearse for gigs / tours. Yes, we have received quite a lot of gig / tour offers, especially from Europe and also some from America. I don't think we have received a single gig offer from Finland though..? If / when we will eventually play live it most likely won't be in Finland since no one knows Azaghal here and I don't see any point in playing to something like 5-10 people. Believe me, it's not very interesting, we have experienced that with Hin Onde.
Azaghal's split-CD with Mustan Kuun Lapset has quite a strange title, "Uusi Suomalainen Black Metal Tulokas". The name might sound brutal for those who do not understand Finnish, but for us Finns, hmmh? Enlighten our readers on the background of this title. Why was it chosen?
-This is a question that you should direct to Mustan Kuun Lapset I believe. I didn't know anything about the title until I received the CD's from the label, as far as I knew the CD was supposed to be untitled. Fuck I was furious when I received the CD's! I really don't know what went on in their heads when they came up with the title. They don't seem to be that serious band in anyway and I think it was a mistake to agree to release this split CD in the first place anyway.
(Well, I can enlighten you all, by telling the story, as it was told to me by a reliable source: the M.K.L. guys sent a list of possible titles for the split, and last of these was U.S.B.M.T., which was a joke, and they emphasized that “Do NOT use this title, it's a joke”. So this information is here just to defend MKL, which are in my opinion, a great and serious band. -Janne)
I must also give some praise to your fantasy project, Valar! The "Magic and Wyrmfire" CD is really a tremendous piece of "Summonesque" fantasy metal. So why the hell did you bury the band? Have you got a steady job and don't have the time, or did you lose the inspiration or what happened? I demand an explanation!
-It's because of lack of (musical) inspiration, I have several lyrical themes I'd like to explore but I have been unable to come up with the right musical setting for them. IF I'll ever make a second Valar album it definitely won't be another Summoning copy album, although I still love Summoning.
You're a fan of fantasy-literature and I think your all-time favourite must be Tolkien. Do you have any other great favourites that you could recommend for me and the readers of this 'zine? Some people, even among the metal scene, see fantasy-literature just as stuff for kids and retards, any message for these "bright" individuals? What about RPG's, have you played any, or are you even currently playing some? Any recommendations on these? (MERP is the Greatest!)
-You are correct, Tolkien is my all-time fave fantasy writer, I've read the "Lord of the Rings" countless times. Usually I prefer some easy-reading fantasy stuff like Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms, especially the books by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman in Dragonlance saga are essential in my opinion, but I guess that everyone into fantasy knows those already. Also the "Dark Tower" series by Stephen King is highly recommended, I'm sure there are still some "fantasy-fans" that haven't checked it out because it is written by King. I am not into RPG's at all. Well, I occasionally play Baldur's Gate or some old classics like the Ultima Underworlds on computer but that's all.
(No RPG's, really surprising!!! -Janne)
As you're from Hyvinkää, and you have quite a satanic image, do you know the person who was convicted of this "ritual" murder couple of years ago? Have you had any contacts with him? Any other comments concerning this hilarious incident? (This is an old story by now, but I'm still interested to know, so...)
-Nope, I didn't know him personally really, but I did sell him some Azaghal CD's just some weeks before the murder hehe. I certainly hope we inspired him someway!
Did the police drag your ass also to the precinct for questioning after the murder? I presume the situation was not that easy in Hyvinkää for metallers dressed in black after that incident? Have you had any problems and harassment with the so called normal people?
-No problems with the police or anything like that.
You've recorded your releases in various different studios: Cursed studio, Newhell studio, Dragonthrone Audio, Hellkult studio etc. Why so many locations? Haven't you been satisfied with any of these as you've not staid in one place? What kind of studios are those?
-Hellkult and Newhell are old names of Dragonthrone Audio, it's my own studio and I have changed the name along the way when the "studio" has become more and more professional. Cursed Studio is ran by Jani Loikas and it's completely professional studio located also in Hyvinkää, so it has always been a natural choice for us because of it's location and I personally like the sound that we get there, although at least our next album will be recorded completely at Dragonthrone Audio.
Then a cliché question: What 5 records would you take down to the pits of Hell with you? Why these?
-Devil Doll - The Girl Who Was Death, Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger, Burzum - Filosofem, Danzig - 4, Summoning - Dol Guldur. I'd choose these simply because these are albums that I never seem to get tired of hearing.
As I've been harassing you with these questions it's only fair to give you chance to ask me something. So, if you've got anything to ask, go ahead!
-What's the name of your child?
-(Janne): Well, I expected something a bit harder after this tormenting interrogation… But, for your knowledge, and for those others who don't know it yet: We named our daughter Venla Alina Valtonen.
The gates are closing, I thank you for your answers and for your patience. May your path be long and interesting. If you have anything to ad, sana on vapaa!
-Thanks for the long & interesting interview!
CLANDESTINE BLAZE (Fin) download HERE
I featured the article about the Finnish band Clandestine Blaze and ug-label Northern Heritage in issue 7. Now is time to the better introduction so here is the interview…
Do you know the Italian band Ataraxia? Is it a blasphemy to listen to their music while making these questions…?
-I don't know. Is it the band who did records for CMI side label? Many people think I'm total bm purist, but in fact, I'm listening also other music besides that. I don't care what you listen.
What was the reason to start the label / distribution Northern Heritage and why is it an unofficial business, don't you want to pay taxes?
-Label was started because of need to release Clandestine Blaze records. Soon also to publish best of the unsigned Finnish bands. Distribution side grew as natural part of label work. As you know, many labels only trade and that's best way to get stuff spread all over the world. I don't think there is so many of good Finnish distributors for ug black metal, at least not back in '99. There are some, Pakana Distribution, Breath of Pestilence, small ones like Hiillos and Embers, but in general, the well known places, Spinefarm for example. They don't seem to have anything to offer these days.
Why is your magazine unofficial? Probably because it's small and non-important compared to real big business. NH isn't big, yet when you're reading this I'll be probably paying more taxes than I have done in past. But of course, have you ever meet people who want to pay taxes? I haven't.
( Comparing Dark Moon and NH is not the point because I publish my work only once a year but your label/mailorder is releasing and selling stuff all the time... About the taxes, I rather pay them to get medical services and stuff like that without huge costs. -ed. )
Can you give me any numbers… how much money you earn approximately each month from your NH-business ( dozens, hundreds or thousands of euros ) and how many copies must be sold of a demo or a CD to call it an average sale?
-I have never counted money I make in month as I don't really "get paid" from NH. All money I do, usually goes back to UG things. Average sale of demo is 3-10 copies and CD 10. Vinyl goes to 10-30. Zines vary randomly anything from 2 to 30.
What is the best seller on your distribution besides your own releases and how many copies were sold?
-Clandestine Blaze tapes are the only ones who go over 100 sold copies (1 copy per customer - not for distributors), otherwise own releases and best distro items sell equally well, which means reaching 50 sold copies. Mutiilation and Deathspell Omega for example are recent "best sellers". There are many titles which I only get 10-30 copies and they sell immediately, so I never know what's the full "potential sales", that's why most of stuff sell this amount. There might be others, like Graveland, who have sold rather well during the years as I have taken re-stocks over and over again and they always sell sooner or later.
I noticed that you will soon release the debut album of Baptism? Could you describe what makes their music good enough to be released by Northern Heritage?
-I was not very convinced with debut demo, but adv. recordings of the album raised my interest. I asked them to send all lyrics as well, and music, lyrics and recommendations from older NH bands was enough. I have also meet some of the members.
I know you might not hear any reason why even Clandestine Blaze should ever be released on Northern Heritage (or any other label), but just like I personally like every NH release, I can be sure there will always be couple of thousand other people as well.
Baptism might not have sheer originality, like most of NH bands don't, but good music is always better than bad. I look for good music with right attitude/atmosphere, not necessarily the most original music. For me, NH has the best selection of bands. I know none of labels who would have so good selection of their "own" bands.
Some of your bands are really unknown to even UG-maniacs, where do you find them or do they approach you and ask for help to get material released? Can you mention any band you would like to sign…?
-Most of people I know before their band gets signed. I don't sign totally unknown bands. Only demo tape is never been enough. Usually I ask bands to send lyrics and information along with their recordings. Possible old interviews. Some bands are signed after being first recommended to me by comrades who have already done material for NH.
I'm not very interested in signing "other labels bands". There is only one, which actually have now been signed. Ildjarn from Norway is doing all their albums on vinyl for Northern Heritage. "Forest Poetry" 2x10" is the first one to come during summer 2002 and rest will follow on 2xLP format. Otherwise I'm mostly interested in good Finnish bands who have not done records for any other labels.
The word "cult" is used with many bands without a real reason but what you think about the Finnish band Azazel… would it deserve a cult status?
-Most of bands don't deserve such status. I don't think Azazel enjoys real cult status inside Finland, but maybe abroad where people never heard the stories of surrounding members of this band.
( Isn't it just the opposite? Azazel is kind of cult in Finland because many people know or think they know the guys and therefore the band has this status without releasing anything for ages. -ed. )
Can you give any information about the "Primitive Finland" 10" compilation… about the bands and basic idea?
-There is two different compilations under work currently. "Primitive Finland" happens to be the one which has mostly musical intention. Name says it all. The dirtiest and noisiest (black/death) metal from Finland, produced with the ugliest and most primitive sound. Clandestine Blaze, Incriminated, Annihilatus and Bloodhammer are planned to be in it, and I can guarantee you will hate it.
Being a small "label" and unofficial business, I would like to know where your releases (CD and vinyl) have been manufactured?
-It depends on release, but companies in Europe or USA. There is no problem at all. Anyone can release records. Whether you do it in some obscure small pressing plant or biggest and oldest places (like I usually do), it's no difference. With authorized records (=no bootlegs), any private person or company can do it in any pressing plant they choose.
Many UG-people know that NSBM is selling well at the moment, and also you have some NS(BM) items on your list… what you think about the whole idea mixing strongly political ideology and (black) metal music?
-Many of the bands are not black metal. I don't mind people mixing something with metal music, but there is reason why "black metal" is called "black", and because of that reason, you can't call everything "black metal". If it would be nazi occultism or something like that, it could maybe be considered as nsbm. But most of "nsbm" bands remain anything else but "black": humanized patriots and socialist care takers and brotherly race lovers. I already see fascination towards this trend fading. It might look popular when visiting some web sites, though.
Nsbm is not significant part of NH's distribution. It's no bigger than for example part of death metal or grindcore being sold from NH. And NH has never been really actual distributor of death metal or grindcore. I support other music styles when it suits the purpose.
Speaking about NSBM and stuff like that… you had some interesting correspondence with the guy of Gauntlets Sword. Have you received threats and hate mail from the Pagan Front activist? Or some sympathy from your own customers and friends perhaps?
-Actually I was rather surprised that all I got was lot of support mails. No threats except from Stuthoff band members, who were extreme enough to send me girlishly perfumed soap as supposedly reminder of the holocaust. Unfortunately I don't use perfumed soap like these boys probably do, so it was only good for thrown to garbage bin.
You have also been active with Freak Animal mag. and records for quite a long… Would you tell me how you manage to balance these two sides of you... I mean, releasing noise stuff and interviewing people whose ideas and ideology lies more on the extreme left than extreme right… they are quite far from the black metal ideology, I think.
-You are misinformed about content of the noise/industrial. A lot of the noise/industrial is hated because of it's supposed right wing connections, misogyny and sadistic violence. It was couple weeks ago when left wing activist attacked on industrial festival in Germany and beaten up people who walked alone. Sure there is leftist and any kind of people involved in noise, just like there is in metal scene. Scene is different from what metal is and can't be compared. There is no problem for me. For me my work with both of the labels contribute to the same cause.
AKR ( Anti Christian Front in English)… when I first saw those three letters, I immediately thought about ALF ( Animal Liberation Front )… is it just a coincidence that you chose that kind of name to represent the ideas it stands for or are/were you active on animal activism and adopted the name from there?
-I didn't choose to name neither idea. Some people consider me as some kind of spokesman for it, but I'm not. I was introduced to subject when AKR actually had some actions in some part of Finland.
I have not been personally involved in animal activism neither member of any organization, but very well learned about the issue. If you'd compare what (drunken?) metallers have done and what ALF has done, it's usually 10 damaged tombstones & getting caught vs. burned buildings & significant damages & not getting caught. So indeed there is a lot to learn from ALF methods, despite their goals are different.
Creamface… porno grind… how "metal" is that… or how "black metal" is that… could you explain because I think it's totally different thing and honestly spoken doesn't really fit into the ideology about praising hard black metal and keeping the spirit of Darkthrone, Beherit and Burzum alive… or do you just want to please anyone including yourself?
-I recall for example Fenriz and Faust praising Napalm Death and representing it as one influence for them. Do you hear blastbeat on Venom? Or even Bathory? Can we thank Napalm Death for giving share of influence for making 90's Nordic black metal (often the style considered as "the most true") to sound what it is? Or maybe you consider Sarcofago less black metal if their tempo and style was influenced by such bands as Terveet Kädet? I think Blasphemy members played also in Tumult, which is plain fast hardcore and you can hear it from Blasphemys music. Respected black/death metallers from US, like Nunslaughter, they're playing in lots of band even such ones like Minch! Have you seen Tom G. Warrior of Hellhammer/C.Frost say in interview that you can thank hardcore for giving some brutality for metal? When you compare Hellhammer and Discharge is it clear which one is metal and which hardcore?
Even in Finland, there is Horna guys playing in Morbid Savouring, there are Incriminated guys playing in Irritate, Impaled Nazarene members used to play in Anus Cunt, Diaboli member praised Terveet Kädet in interview and debut album still includes some hardcore elements, etc etc. And I don't even bother to start listing foreign grind/black metal connections. None of the styles is "pure". Black metal is build of elements of many styles and what makes it black and different from other music is the ideology.
I don't think it makes it less commitment from black metal if you have interest also in other style of music. It's honesty towards your work.
Spirit of Darkthrone, Burzum and Beherit is whole atmosphere what these bands captured at their best. I don't get my ideological influence from these. Especially today, as DT is mere metallers (I still have respect for that, though), Burzum is denying all his past and talking irrational bullshit as well as left back all metal. Beherit is party DJ with no connection to metal. About Creamface, it has never claimed to be metal, black metal or anything else than 100% porno grind which is mentioned on every release, flyer and interview. I'm not intending to please anyone but myself. Anyway, I tend to think pornographic content and perversion has much more to do with "black metal" than for example forests. There is no controversy between my involvement in CF or CB. I know lot of people want to see that, but I don't care for a lot of people.
Well, you missed my point. Anyone, who has ever listened to anything else than black metal, knows that blastbeat was not born within bm. I have always laughed at guys who say hc or grind is shit and then they listen to Immortal or Darkthrone, praising how fast they play, etc. But this was not the point at all. I wanted to know, how you think the ideology of porno grind and your words about keeping the spirit ( not the way the music is played! ) of black metal can be put together? Nothing wrong to play different kinds of music, but somehow this "sounds" odd. Again I remind that you don't usually mention Creamface in the interviews, and I have a feeling that one reason is that it, somehow, lessen the status of Clandestine Blaze, or am I totally wrong? And about forests vs. pornographic content. If you fuck in the forest, then it must be jet black metal, hah.
-It doesn't lessen status of Creamface. I hardly ever mention my other bands in some other band interview as I don't want them to gain success on my involvement on other groups OR to be labelled as "side project of..". For example, past issue of Dark Moon included "shock news" of Blutrache being actually project of Nazgul. That's exactly why it could be secret who is involved. Whatever you do, it's always "side project of Horna member". I don't want for example Grunt being labeled as "side project of Clandestine Blaze" if I have done it for 10 years. I don't want CB "fans" to buy this stuff only because it's made by me, but because the stuff deserves it. Anyway, forests as topic is ok sometimes. Some of the best bm records include this topic. But I tend to like mostly something different.
( I quote Dark Moon #7; “Blutrache's debut album was marketed as the first foreign ( German ) band on Northern Heritage. The truth is that the band comes from Lappeenranta, Finland…” No Nazgul mentioned anywhere, so the only “news” was that stupid marketing strategy. And as you mentioned Horna, I really wonder why Mr. ex-vocalist sells his CDs with his own autograph if he wants to be known from something else than just the ( ex- ) member of Horna. That's not your problem though, just wondering. -ed. )
Ok, let's move on to Clandestine Blaze and first I would like to know your honest opinion about the C.B.-reviews which state things like for example; "The vocals were obviously recorded on a separate track, and the queerbait's voice is distorted having the recording level set too high. Maybe it was set right but then the fag just couldn't resist putting microphone as far into his mouth as possible just to preserve that element of homosexuality that is essential to black metal bullshit albums." or "Evil sound effects and slick marketing don't make up for bad music."…
-This is my favorite CB review of all times. It's about debut CD from "Grimoire of…" magazine. If you are reader of that magazine, you know basically anything else than clean sounding US death metal gets similar reviews. The energy they use for raising homosexuality as topic is so significant, they probably talk more about gays than any "MEN's magazine", I'd assume. If they'd be truly straight, gay men would not be so big issue for them. Between lines can be seen hidden will of getting cock between their lips.
I know many people like your music… it is primitive and anti-Christian but I personally don't like it too much because band like Darkthrone has made it all much better and more effectively over ten years ago. Can you say what kind of response you get more; positive or negative and are there any difference between certain countries or even continents or is it mixed opinions worldwide?
-It's positive response I usually get. You said 10 years ago when we corresponded first times, traded our zines etc, that you've been listening metal for so long that it's hard to impress you with anything. I personally don't believe that metal should change radically from what it's been already. I'm surprised people keep crying how we are so boring when we keep doing same thing what was good 10 years ago. Well, 10 years don't change it anywhere. It's still good. What's "good" in "today's" metal? Hip hop or "humppa" elements? 10 years is short time. I don't think it's retro to play 90's style. For me 10 years ago was just a while ago. It's usually 16 years old boys who refer this era as "ancient times" as they were in so small children back then so it feels like ancient past.
There is some people who always say there's nothing special in Darkthrone, that they only combined what Bathory and Celtic Frost did years earlier. And some say old bands did it better and DT remains as mere clone. I tend to think Darkthrone is not really clone of those bands, and neither CB as clone on Darkthrone. Influences can be heard, but that's all. I know plenty of people who only by drumming style judge band as Darkthrone clone.
About good countries for CB. Records sell to almost anywhere. From Finland to Guatemala and from Japan to India. But best countries are Germany, Finland, France, USA, and maybe couple of others. For Sweden or Norway there's never been records well distributed and same goes to South America, Australia, and some other places around world/Europe.
One thing I personally wonder is that you don't want to use your own name anywhere and also photos are not used in the C.B. covers… Why?
-I personally wonder why so many people WANT their pictures and names to be on record covers?? What is it that you feel obligated to pose for pictures and get your name in public?
I don't search publicity for myself. I dislike unnecessary attention and I dislike "fan" -thing what comes with tradition of metal. How do you feel when people want your signed photos? I feel frustrated as it's phenomena suitable for pop music, nothing else.
Dealing with the previous… I have seen some mailorder lists where C.B. has been called "mysterious" and "secret" band because people don't even know your name. Actually this is a great marketing strategy and I think it's fine with you but are you afraid that revealing your name could ruin the image you have gained? For me that kind of secrecy only make me wonder if there are something one wants to hide in one's personality and/or history…
-Name is not secret. I have it written on each message I send from my e-mail so there must be hundreds, if not thousands who know it. I could ask you if you would be asking this question if there would read for example "Lord Flame" being sole member of Clandestine Blaze? Maybe 90% of black metal people are hidden under fake names, even some of my customers never reveal their true name even with possibility of post being delivered to wrong address due "false name". Is it somehow better to have some JRR Tolkien rip-off as name than no name at all? Do you think first alternative tells more about the person?
( I didn't think about other bands but C.B., but I can tell you that any stage names are not better, I just wanted to know why no name at all, in interviews e.g. -ed. )
You always make it clear that C.B. don't want to be a part of the "new" bm with clear vocals and synths etc., but I have another opinion about this, told me by a friend over ten years ago when there were not C.B.; "Why to spend hours and hours in rehearsals and studios, making metal with good and varying riffs and good sounds when you can make three new black metal songs while eating your cereals in the morning… and earn some bucks because there are always people who like dirty stuff no matter how bad it is"… Any opinion about this?
-There are a lot of people who think clean sound = good, complex song structure and skilled playing = good, triggered drums = good sound, etc. and when there is band who has none of that, it's bad. But when I hear triggered drums, I usually think it sounds awful. When I hear polished sound in music where it doesn't fit (like most of bm), I think it's bad sound.
Thing your friend said, I think, is often words of frustrated metal head who have been practicing their talented guitar solos or perfect drum fills for 20 years just to notice that most people don't give a fuck.
If besides creating, I release and distribute rough black metal and listen it most of time, I think it's more or less proof that I don't want to do or listen this modern/complex whatever bullshit. It's not lack of skills, but absolute lack of interest in such type of music. Anyway, rough sound doesn't make music automatically good. It's combination of many things. There is plenty of utter crap in every type of music.
Do you ever wonder how Darkmoon, being rather dull looking (take it as compliment) black/white magazine typed with typewriter, and simple lay-out can capture more attention and sell more than glossy color zines with free CD?
( Hah, Dark Moon has never captured real attention or sold “many” copies. –ed )
As I haven't listened to your stuff very much, I don't really know if there are any "development" but maybe you could tell me… What you think, in what way C.B.'s music has changed or has it changed at all?
-Some people say it has developed. I don't hear drastic changes. There are some, but basically it's still the same it used to be in '97/98. Maybe style of riffs varies more, and there is longer songs.
Would you accept a CD- and LP-deal from any label or do you want to maintain the current situation with C.B.-releases?
-I get offers once in a while, but no interest to change from what I do now. I don't think there is any label who would be able to offer me better deal than what I can do on NH.
EAL is releasing most of the NHR-releases on vinyl format… how did you "find" EAL or did they find you?
-Only things EAL has done is Clandestine Blaze 2nd and 3rd LP's and there will be Musta Surma LP (CD version deal on NH). Currently it's 2 out of 20, so I don't consider 10% as "most". ( Sorry, I meant EAL has released most of the vinyl versions you haven't made yourself. –ed )
Clandestine Blaze had demo and debut LP out and EAL didn't have yet any releases out, but 4 first ones was already agreed with bands / on their way. They were looking for more good black metal bands who fit into their label policy and CB raised their interest. Since then we've been in close contact and there is very special bond between the labels. I knew the label before they contacted me, as I was informed about it by Warloghe who has deal for vinyl version of their first album, which was among the first things which came on EAL.
You have begun to release C.B.-tapes with only a few tracks on each... What is this shit? 4Ђ for a tape like that is a rip-off to me!
-Tapes vary from 20-30 minutes. Isn't that usual demo length, or even longer? ( Usually demos don't contain songs which will either appear on albums or are different versions than the album versions, so maybe these tapes should be called singles or promos? -ed. ) Most of the material is exclusive songs, so I feel it's plenty of content for the lousy 4,- of cash. I don't consider it as good business to waste time for dubbing tapes and cutting the covers one by one manually. It seems to be more or less rule that metal band who once did album can't do tapes anymore. And that each release must sell more than the one before. I don't care about that. If I want to make tape I sell only from NH distribution for limited amount or period, I'll do it, no matter does it fit to expectations of "scene" or people. Only question I understand is why to make 4 tapes at once and not 2x C-60 compilations. Reason is that I wasn't making compilation, but tape(s) which each one has own atmosphere.
Then something else… You know I have featured Unholy and Tiermes in Dark Moon, but what you think about the news that Unholy is dead now? Or did it die already when Jarkko left the band? Are you still in contact with Jarkko or/and Ismo?
-I heard the news sometime ago when I was in Imatra. It was no surprise, when you think their dormant state. Last albums was ok, but not as good as their best ones. I think atmosphere changed quite a lot. First time I saw them play live in '92, they had masks, robes, etc. And in '98 when I saw last time it was hawaii shirts. I never knew so well other members except Jarkko. I'm in touch with him only occasionally. I still have some Temple of Tiermes video material to be released on Freak Animal Records, so despite lack of communication, we're still working together.
I admire Unholy and consider "Trip to depressiv autumn" and "From the shadows" as milestones of Finnish metal.
Tiermes interview was featured in Dark Moon #4 in 1997 and Jarkko told back then that Tiermes' first promo, "Gandharva Constellation", was never released… However, this promo has been released by someone because my friend told me that his friend has it and another funny thing is that you are mentioned there too as a musician so would you tell me what is this all about?
-It wasn't released yet in '97. I was member of Temple of Tiermes back in '95. We recorded nearly 60 minutes worth of material. I was contributing vocals, noise and mostly sound engineering. Jarkko did guitars and most of other things. Ismo of Unholy played one keyboard thing to one track. From this material was later selected and re-mastered 30 minutes worth of material. I think it happened in '98/99 or so. It was not "promo", but Tape release. This tape was very limited. Only handful of copies exists as individual tape and I assume also as part of "black box".
Northern Heritage is also a UG-publication... or was, because in issue 3 you tell that it's your final issue unless you feel like returning in the future. Northern Heritage magazine maintained the very same line with your label, UG black metal only and therefore bands like Satanic Warmaster, Exordium, Incriminated, Musta Surma, etc. have been featured… But you have also had other publications in the past, and then it was a different story… could you tell us about those days?
-I did my first magazines back in '92. Nyktofobia, (as nobody remembers) was combination of death, thrash, grind and very little of black metal. I think it was closer to style of UG magazines from late 80's and early 90's what existed in Finland. When reading Nyktobia #2, you can see me referring to be listening Darkthrone "A Blaze in the Norther sky" while typing Sickness -interview. But mostly, there was lack of black metal in those pages.
You have made some statements in Northern Heritage mag. and I think they are always good fun but nothing else, really. It's obvious that you and many others want to express their feelings about different things, be it black metal, homosexuality in Catholic church or price of a bread… I still have a strong doubts about those statements because I know lots of people who are saying this and that now and only a few years later they say something else, this has happened in the past and it will happen also in the future… Be true to yourself so you know who you are. So, why did you make all those statements and what you think about my point of view?
-Should I understand this in a way that nobody should say anything, because they might evolve during years? I think it's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. If you have opinion about something and want to express it, isn't that "being true to yourself" to voice that statement? Or should you hide your views because some people think metal is not place for ideas, views, opinions or politics, but heavy music only? I hate such "headbanging" ideology, where everything is only about "heavy metal" and in metal magazines or music should be total absence of all opinions, except about the "heavy metal" music.
Sure I'm not proud of all my statements what I did for example when I was 14 or 15. But now, in times of Clandestine Blaze I have no regrets of anything.
I'd say I have pretty much grown old enough to understand what I'm saying and I don't see myself changing that much during the years. Only faced the realities of the life and finding the path I'm going to walk.
I don't think every person grows sooner or later to be tender fathers and back bones of the society with regular day jobs etc. Fuck that. The older I am, the less I have interest for that kind of life. You assume when people have some "special" lifestyle, it's only matter of youth rebellion?
If you really understood my question that way, well… Anyone can say anything one wants but statements are usually full of things which are later denied or changed because one "evolves". That is bullshit because when one states things about e.g. black metal, what is right or wrong, etc. and then after a few years of evolution changes one's opinions and views, what was the point of statement? If you can't be sure what you think about things when you are 5 years older, then rather write the statement to your diary than publish it in an ug mag. I understand that people evolve and "grow up", but you know as well as I do that it doesn't have to mean you also change your views and opinions. I mean, if you are really into "it"! That's why I wrote "be true to yourself", if you are not certain about yourself, then shut up. I think "headbanging" ideology, the way you put it, is bullshit. but I think you know it already. And I don't assume that "special" lifestyle is only matter of youth rebellion. Hah, I think one can be a real rebel only when one realizes the facts of life and can really understand what is going on, and I think most of the 15-years-old kids don't have the capacity of understanding even half of the "truth". That's only my opinion, not a statement. So, any further opinion about this matter?
-As I said, content of NH magazine is not teen rebellion, so I stand behind it 100%. I do agree that people should thought things by themselves before making or imitating statements. No further thoughts on this.
In your 3rd issue you also changed the lay-out even if it's still quite clear and text is made with a computer… But what you think about Dark Moon… My 7th issue in 2001 was the first ever made with a computer, so have I sold my soul to the mainstream and forgotten my past now?
-Hah… I think in Darkmoon lay-out was never important, only content. I'm I right? So what people think about your lay-out is not so essential? Except that I have recollection someone telling me you got very angry when he criticized oldest Darkmoon logo, because it was made by your girl-friend.
( Hah, I think that logo was drawn by me, I don't remember though. The cover was drawn by my girlfriend's sister, and it was criticized quite much. I was never angry about that, just wondered why the cover was the only thing to criticize... did those people read the #1 at all? -ed. )
Is it you who is posing in the front cover of NH mag. #3? I mean the guy who is trying to get his cock eaten by a goat?
-I must disappoint you and say no. I have no attraction to animals, but I though this picture was suitable for cover.
At the end of your mailorder list you have mentioned some stuff you would like to get and I have wondered why you want e.g. Fallen Pages 'zines or Pure Fucking Hell #1? I know you were active in the ug when those 'zines were published so why didn't you buy them back then or have you just lost them… or sold/traded like I did years ago?
-I must have nearly 1000 underground zines or every type. Still countless of good ones are missing. I think even today you can experience situations where you want something but don't have money for it all. Imagine same situation for teen-boy who doesn't have rich parents spoiling with steady cash flow. That's the reason why I don't have everything I wanted ten years ago. I've been buying lots of stuff what I missed back then. Replacing tape copies with original records etc.
Let's get back to the Northern Heritage Records for a while… What is your opinion about labels and bands which release stuff which are limited to e.g. 300, 666 or 1000 copies and after a few months those same items are for sale for huge prices in the internet because people either didn't find them when they were available for the normal price or didn't know about the release at all… I hate this kind of shit because this is one example how ug has changed during the years, more and more people are acting like businessmen. Have you noticed this with your own releases and what you think about people who are e.g. buying many copies of something and then sell them as rare cult items? And why do you release limited editions anyway…?
-Most of underground metal records sell 1000 copies anyway. So it often matter do you announce it "ltd 1000" or just sell it as normal CD. People might complain if it's "limited", but if its only pressed 1000 but not announced as "limited", nobody cares. 1000 copies is enough for most of records, unless you are willing to promote and try to boost sales with something. I'm not interested in that.
Often people have months time to order stuff I release and if they haven't done it before it's sold out, I don't think they are truly interested. Complaints from such people have no value at all. If you need NH release, you inform me about it and ask to be on mailing list. It's so simple.
I'm aware that yet not all people know what label is doing, but you can't expect me to focus on promotional campaigns and advertisement only because of assumption there might be some more people over there who aren't yet informed. In early interviews I always said word will get around. People will notice you sooner or later if it's worth it. Compared to in-your-face promotional campaigns and forcing promos down the throats of ass-kissing underground media, I think this honestly gained attention/reputation of Northern Heritage or Clandestine Blaze is much better alternative.
Each NH record has contact address. If you need NH stuff, ask for the list. Some people never order anything from lists I send, and then when I stop wasting stamps, they might be pissed off if they miss some release. I do "serve" customers to some extent, but it never works one-way only. So don't expect everything on silver plate. Limited releases are ok with me. But there is also some signs of kind of "misuse" of this. There are some labels who seem to use it as "I'm more underground than you" -type of behavior. Even willing to print flyers saying "it's sold out, fuck you!" after record is sold out. I think such behavior is against whole idea of the limited edition.
I dislike high prices too. But I consider it as fault of internet. Before it, there was no such prices asked. I don't pay such prices, I don't sell for such prices. It's not my problem. If I don't get something for fair price, I'm satisfied with tape trade copy or if it's questions whether have CD or limited vinyl, CD is fine if price of vinyl is around 100$.
How do you see the future of Northern Heritage Records and Clandestine Blaze… and what is your goal with them?
-No specific goals. Just remain what it is now. I'm kicking the metal underground into direction I see it should be, that's what label is doing.
Well, I started this interview by telling you about Ataraxia… what are you listening to while answering or are you listening to anything at all? Could you tell me the current top-5 playlist of yours?
-It's nearly unfortunate that there is so much of records pressed that I hardly have time to listen everything I get more than once or twice. I have maybe 70 records waiting to be listened at the moment, but it gets dull to listen only new stuff, if there is dozens and dozens of "classics" what you wish to hear as well. If you leave away my obsession, top5 is usually what I release on NH/FA, especially my own creations. During this interview I have listened Bloodyminded "True Crime", Sian "Sink/Assign", Primigenium "All your tears will be ours", Old Wainds "Religious Spiritual Violence", and Sort Vokter "Folkloric Necro Metal".
Now is your chance to strike back… anything to ask me?
-Is it just illusion, but is Dark Moon changing to more and more cynical towards the scene/metal, often willing to make interviews or reviews where you can focus in "anti- ass-licking"? Following the good way of successful Isten magazine?
-(Tommi): Funny question because I think I have never licked anybody's ass with my questions… But you know as well as I do that the scene in year 2002 is big and full of bands without anything to offer, so I am sure there is some cynicism in Dark Moon nowadays. Speaking of Isten, if you think I'm following their way, you could be more wrong. I have not liked their previous issues ( well, I don't like many other ug ‘zines either ) and therefore I don't want to follow their path. I know Markus is much more into their previous works, so maybe his interviews and style is more closer to theirs. When I started Dark Moon, Hammer of Damnation was kind of paragon to me because I liked Niko's work a lot.
End is near but before I bleed to death, please let us know if something essential was missing. Thank you for this interview… really!
-This was different Clandestine Blaze interview than usually. Very good one.
DENIAL OF GOD (Den) download HERE
Questions Tommi Hakonen / answered by Azter
Denial of God is featured for the 3rd time and as their last appearance in Dark Moon was already in 1996, I thought it would be a time to make another interview with Azter. So, here it is... some Black Horror Metal...
Hello Azter… how are you?
-Hell-o Tommi! I am busy as always and looking at the length of this interview I am about to do, I think I might have another long night ahead of me!
This is the 3 rd time in Dark Moon 'zine… but do you think it is a bigger miracle that Dark Moon 'zine still exists than Denial of God? Why?
- Well, I don't think it is a bigger miracle to see your 'zine is still going than to see Denial Of God still existing, not when I take all our frustrations into consideration. We have been let down by labels and have had many line-up problmes (as we still have even today) and I always feel that things are moving too slowly for us due to all this and that we cannot achieve everything we want to, like playing some bigger tours, recording more frequently and things like that. But I wouldn't call it a miracle, it is simple the result of an iron will to continue. But, I must say it is great that Dark Moon is still in existance as you were one of the first people to give some good exposure to us and you have kept your integrity intact through the years! That is something which can only be said about a few, unfortunately!
Last time, in '96, you had a deal with the Dark Trinity Productions and ”The Ghouls of DOG” MCD was released in summer of 96… It was your first release in CD-format and I know you were quite upset about some of the reviews because they were dealing with the imagery more than music, and I know you were also pissed off by the review Markus made for Dark Moon #4 because of this mock of imagery. Well, here is the review, tell me what is the things you were so pissed off about; ”Thirteen songs all in all on this MCD, that's nice. But what the fuck is this? Tracks 5-12 are 6-7 seconds long empty tracks, and track 13 is an ”a cappella” version of the middle part of the song ”Follow those who died” ( also on this MCD). That leaves us with four real tracks, out of which one is an intro. I liked this band's second demo a lot, and while listening to this MCD, I notice that they have changed. The problem is that they haven't changed for the better! The biggest change I hear are the vocals, Ustumallagam used to have these high and mournful, yet aggressive vocals, which I really liked, but nowadays he sings a lot lower, and some of the band's originality is lost. Soundwise they've gone for the raw'n'primitive approach, but it doesn't sound very good to me. The mix is pretty awful in places; imbalanced guitars, drums too loud etc. It's a bit chaotic and unstructured, early Beherit comes to mind. The biggest disappointment however, is the band's SLOPPY playing. The guitars play out of time with each other more than once, and sometimes even Uksul seems to lose control over his ”human bones on skulls”. It's really surprising, as there were no mistakes like this on the demo. Perhaps it is all done in one take, perhaps they had little time to record, I don't know. Or perhaps they were too drunk to play correctly? I for one don't like to pay money to hear a bunch of mistakes… When they play in time, things sound ok, but this is just too careless for me, and I don't think there is any good explanation for leaving mistakes, like the ones here, on an official release. Anyhow, the tracks here are ”The Ghouls of DOG”, ”Robbing the Grave of the Priest”, ”Follow those who died” and ”The Crypt has Eyes”. By the way, it must be hard to be a black metaller's girlfriend. Just think about what Ilsa Anghel (Vond-album cover) and Monica Brеten (Satyricon-video cover) have had to do. Now it's Lotte Nielsen's turn to bare all for the camera, with purple blood running down her neck. Yes, it seems like the printers have done it again. (”Those of the Unlight”, anyone?). I think the blood was supposed to be red, not purple. Or maybe I'm wrong? At least the guys' purple eyes on the cover look a little silly…” I think Markus was telling the truth about the cover art, not mocking your imagery… maybe it was argument about ”sloppy playing”, which he stated to be the biggest disappointment, you were pissed off after all?
- First off, there were a lot of other reviews focusing almost entirely on the imagery of the band, not only the one above. When that is said, I think the review above is correct in some places. The production and playing could be a lot better, absolutely, but when that is said, I think the review is very negatively pointed in general. Yes, there are 13 counting tracks on the CD, but only 4 are mentioned on the cover, so if you count the a capella ”Follow those who died” reprise at the end, you actually get more than you expected. Since when is it wrong to have a hidden track? This has been done before and especially since! Concerning the pictures, yes, the bloodred turned pink, but that was something that happened during the printing, so why spend so much time writing about it? The same goes for the photo of me and this girl…who cares if Vond or Satyricon had their girlfriends on their covers or in their videos? Besides that – if Markus had listened to the demo he would recognise similar mistakes, so so say that things became worse since the demo is totally incorrect. I think the problem is that we did not realize the mistakes before the recordings were totally finished and also the guy whom we produced with was not at all aware of some mistakes that happened and which we did not have the chance to realize until after the recording was finished. Looking back I realize that I would not be so upset about such things today as I know that most people who write reviews these days have no knowledge about music anyway, and they sure don't know how it is to record anything. I was involved with this music before they were and I will be after they have abandoned Metal, so fuck them!
You told me that the deal with the Dark Trinity was for three releases ( picture 7”EP, MCD and CD ) but why was ”The Ghouls…” MCD the only release which was released by Dark Trinity? Did they rip you off or what happened? How many copies that MCD sold after all? Are you still in contact with Dark Trinity or/and Thus Defiled… I haven't heard from them for a loooong time…
- Yes, the deal with Dark Trinity Prod. was for the 3 releases you mentioned, but when the label again and again failed to give us any sales statements and never let us know anything about this (although this was stated clearly in the contract) and we decided that we had to leave that label behind as we would never get anything concrete from. Yes, they ripped us off, you can say that. We are not in touch with them anymore and neither do we wish to be so.
The vinyl version of the MCD was released by your own Horror Records and not the Maggot Records like planned, why didn't Maggot release it after all?
-This was simple because Maggot continued to delay the release in favour of other releases, and we decided that we had to do it ourselves to ever have it out on vinyl. The vinyl version came out 3 years after the CD, so it was about time.
After the first MCD, Denial of God-camp was silent for quite a long time, no official release was out until ”The Curse of the Witch” 7”EP in 1999 by Sombre Records and after that the second MCD, ”Klabautermanden”, through HHR… To be honest, I didn't know if you were alive or not during that time even if I knew you had a deal with HHR but I was really wondering why that stuff was so fucking delayed… Did HHR try to smoke you out of the label or what the fuck was the reason for the delay?
-”Klabautermanden” was finally released in late 1999. We recorded it in late 1998 and it was supposed to be out in spring, but the layouter took his time to fisnish the job and then Hammerheart kept on delaying the release as well, and that is why it took so long. Actually we had intended to record it earlier in 1998, but Sorgh who was the drummer back then took quite a while to learn those few songs and therefore we were not able to record it before the end of 1998. We released ”The Curse of the Witch” as a limited collector's item and as a small sign that the band was still existing as others were also in doubt if we existed or not. Yeah, nowadays we can wonder if HHR tried to smoke us out, but I guess that was not the reason although they soon backed out.
The 2 nd MCD was released in a very dull looking digi-pack, without any information about anything, what was the original plan for the covers and why did HHR release it this way? And is it true that the 10” MLP didn't even have the band's name/logo on it?
-No, that certainly wasn't the plan! The digipack was supposed to have a booklet with all lyrics and recording infos, but HHR simply released the CD without this booket, although we delivered the layout for this. And yes, the picture 10” m-LP does not even have the band name on it which is of course ridiculous! It was supposed to have an insert with the lyrics, logo and all other info, but like with the CD, HHR simply released it without anything included and without our knowledge about this of course!
You have said that HHR fucked everything up, do they also own you some money or/and stuff or were they ”only” assholes with you? You have said that ”revenge will come”, what is it or will be, can you tell?
-As I already explained, they released our stuff totally without lyrics and any info at all which is VERY important for us (we have been printing our lyrics since the first demo tape in 1992) and they never told us about this, so in that way they fucked up these releases. Also their advertising for ”Klabautermanden” was absolutely idiotic which did not do any good either. Finally I can also mention that the press material for the promo copies of ”Klabautermanden” was really lousy. No, I wouldn't say they owe us any money, but they sure as hell owe a decent explanation for that!
HHR have become bigger and bigger, and you have told that they have no guts to risk anything but only release stuff which sells well etc. Do you think bands that are signing deals with them nowadays are also shit because they don't boycott HHR? What you think about Ancient Rites being on HHR? I was shocked when I heard this, to be honest!
-This is still my opinion. They have released an incredible amount of records where the only selling points were that some people from other more wellknown bands were involved. It has become all quantity over quality, but as everyone knows that is the way of making money these days! They are not ready to deal with a band like us because we were not able to record an album as often as they wished and because we were not able to play some shows that they would have liked us to play. We have always been plagued by delays and problems, but HHR could not deal with this and only wanted bands that are more stable. They look at everything from a business point of view and that is the wrong way to do it – unless you want to make money, of course. They told us it might be better we part ways and that was definitely correct! It is useless saying we would have recorded nothing more for them anyway! Ancient Rites on HHR? Well, it might be good for them, but time will tell. I for one think they are too good to be on such a shitty label.
Let's leave the HHR behind and continue with other, more important, subjects… After the 2 nd MCD, you have released two 7”EPs but only with a one old song on each + a cover track… why do you ”recycle” the old songs so much? I counted that you have only released 20 different, own, songs on your releases during the career of 10 years of official releases!!! At least you don't write new songs every ten minutes like some other bands do…
-Thank you. First I wouldn't say that we ”recycle” our songs so much. Some songs from the demos were re-recorded for 7” EPs and mini-albums, but there is nothing strange about that. About the two recent 7” EPs – we re-recorded these tracks because we felt that they deserved to be re-recorded, and when I listen to thse recordings now I am so glad we did it as those new recordings are so much more powerful than the old ones and also the playing is much better. We had always wanted to record some covers of some of our inspiraions like Mayhem and Death SS (to name a few) and this was the perfect way to do it, to re-record an old classick and a cover song for each 7” EP. It is true that we have not written many songs compared to other bands and I will be the first to admit that I wished I was a faster song writer. It would be great with may more songs to choose from, but this is how it is, and it all feels okay for me as I know that we have never written a song that could not stand the test of time and that we have never regretted any song we have recorded and released. All those songs have a life of their own and are something special. They are all small relics of sheer horror! If I wanted I could write songs all the time, but these would be shitty songs and useless, so why bother? There are enough other bands doing that all the time, and I want to make sure our songs are not a blind compiling of riffs – they have to be real SONGS which give a meaning. There seems to be only way for our songs to sound because when we finally finish a song once in a while then we also know that we will not change it anymore. It is a long and hard journey before a song is finished, but it is always worth the wait! I can tell you that I know people refer to our single songs (everyone has his/her own faves) and that makes sense because what we are doing is not just a senseless blurr of brutality or technicality. It is all about feeling and moods! I am sure you can go out on the street and ask any idiot about his fave band – but is he really capable of separating one song from another?
I remember that you was talking about the first full-length release of D.O.G. years ago but ”The Horrors of Satan” hasn't been released yet, have you already used all the tracks which were supposed to be on that debut album for your other releases or are there still unused tracks to be released for the first time when the album is out? When was the first ( not already used/released! ) track written to that debut full-length, by the way?
-Yes, that title has been talked about for years now, and the album is still going to be called that. We haven't used any tracks for the album (except for a demo version of ”The Curse of the Witch” on the 7” EP of the same title). Originally we wanted to record this album after ”The Ghouls of DOG”, but then we wrote some songs which would not fit this album's basic theme and therefore we released ”Klabautermanden” first. The reason is, besides rare rehearsals, that the last couple of songs are not totally finished. It might be a creative crisis, but I am eager to make these songs something special and so far I have not been absolutely satisfied with what I have written. Most of the album is completely written and the album is sure as hell going to be recorded as soon as those last songs are the way they were supposed to be! The oldest track for the album is ”A Night in Transylvania” which was written sometime in 1994. This is indeed old, but once you will finally get to hear the album you will also see that everything on this album works well together, and the fact that all songs were written over such a long period proves that we have not changed our ways. But, this is typical for any DOG release as there is often a long period between the first song written and the last one which is usually finished shortly before recording. The album will contain six long ”real” songs, an intro and 2 short instrumentals to tie the album together.
You have signed a deal with Belgian Painkiller Records, who are they and what is the deal like? Do you think they manage to make things finally work?
-Laurent of Painkiller has long been a supporter for us, and when we parted ways with Hammerheart Records, I asked Laurent if he would be interested in signing the band. He was, sent us the contract and we signed it. I do not wish to speak about the details here as I don't have the contract in my hands right now and I don't remember every detail in it. What I can tell you is that he will, besides the ”The Horror of Satan” LP/CD, release a 12”/CD-single entitled ”A Night in Transylvania” which will be released one month prior to the album. It will have a song from the LP, an acoustic (!) version of another album track and a cover of Future Tense. I hope the label will do a good job for us, but I don't expect miracles because we have always had many other problems besides the labels and even a good label can't solve all those problems. What I hope for is that every release will come out the way WE want it and that we will be paid the money we would be due. I have no hope for big sales, so first and fore most I want to see our releases to be released the way WE want them and with no changes like it happened with the last label. Once that has come true, we will look at the rest. As I said, I don't expect miracles, but I have a good feeling about it right now.
Your two great demos have been released in vinyl format ( or will be ) by Sombre Records, was there a demand for this kind of re-release and are the sounds 100% equal to the original?
-Marcel of Sombre proposed the idea to us of releasing a mini-LP with the second ”The Dawn of Aemizaez” demo, and shortly thereafter we decided that it would be better to release a full LP and include the first demo ”Oscularium Infame” as well. Yes, there have been a lot of people asking for these demos since they were sold out, and this is a great way of making them available again, even if it can never replace the original demo tapes (seen from a collectorґs point of view). We were going to release this LP (which will be entitled ”The Dawn of Aemizaez: Demos 1992-1993”) on Sombre Records, but just as everything was being arranged we found out that Sombre Records was selling bootleg/counterfeit copies of our demos and selling them as originals which we were really pissed off about, so we did not want to release that LP on Sombre after all. Around the same time we had a proposal from another label that wanted to release these demos on vinyl as well, namely AIDS Productions in Sweden, so we decided to do it with that label instead. In the meantime we found out that the tapes Sombre was selling were not made by Sombre but by someone else, so we again have a good relationship with them. However, we decided to stick with AIDS Productions because first off he will release 500 copies (instead of the 350 that Sombre wanted to press) and also it will be released with a gatefold cover. The first 100 copies will come as a picture disc and include some exclusive extras and then there will also be a CD version later. The sound will be as on the original demos, but everything will be remastered as the original recordings have some noise and tape clicking that we want to get rid off, so the LP and CD versions will sound better than the original demos which were all copied by ourselves on our tapedecks. I expect this release to be out after summer, we just have to get the material remastered and the layout must be re-done for this gatefold version.
Nowadays different labels are releasing various limited vinyl versions and I think the idea is ok but what pisses me really off is that after only a while, most of those releases turn to be only money-making releases for ”so called UG-people” who buy their copy ( or copies!!! ) with normal and fair price and then sell them for huge profit via internet. And the same goes for old classics etc. I hate this ” real UG-attitude ” but what you think about it?
-Well, I think this is sometimes a sign that some relases are TOO limited. I mean, nobody should be too pissed off about the fact that a limited release of a band can become expensive over the years because it has always been that way! I am a record collector myself and I have sometimes paid a fortune for a release that I wanted. Also I have sold rare records for a good price, but I am not gonna fool myself and sell it for nothing when I know the demand is there and that some people are willing to pay a good price. As I said, I have always done this myself, but noone has forced me to buy anything, right? It is only natural that rare records will become much sought after (and therefore expensive) as time passes by. However, it might be a problem when some people buy huge stocks only to keep the records for a later time when these records will be much more expensive because the records will be fucking hard to find already at the time they are released. However, as an example: Metallica released their ”No Life ґtil Leather” demo in 1982 and noone knew them back then. Nowadays they have millions of fans who would like to have that demo, so would you sell it for what you call a ”normal price”?? I guess not! It is all a question of demand and the number of records available.
In autumn 2000, you were a part of the tour featuring Sabbat, Unpure and Urn but you didn't, unfortunately, play here in Finland but what was it like? Also Pagan Rites were performing at least in Falkenberg, could you give your honest opinion about each band? Have you heard album ”666 Megatons” by Urn, by the way? Opinion?
-No, we were never a part of that tour! The thing is that there was a little talk about us joining that tour, but we reckoned that it would become a financial desaster for us (among other things we would have to start with travelling all the way to Finland to start the tour and also you must take into consideration that payment was needed for 4 bands then), so we had to turn down the offer. As much as we would have liked to tour – we could not have afforded to lose a lot of money on it. I remember that we were on the posters and flyers for the show in Falkenberg, but this was done before we had ever given our definite ”yes” to the tour, so a lot of people there asked why we had cancelled the tour. The truth is we never said ”yes” to joining the tour in the first place. The show in Falkenberg was great, however, although it was a shitty feeling to know that we MIGHT have palyed there as well. I especially enjoyed Sabbat and the return of the great Pagan Rites, both bands were really good! I have only listened 1 time to the Urn album yet, so I can't honestly say too much about it at this point.
You have some bloody performance on stage, and I have always wondered, where do you get those maggots you throw at audience, and are they earthworms or something else? Are the maggots the main reason why some venues have banned your performance after the first appearance?
-The maggots are of different kinds, whatever we can get hold of – as long as they are disgusting it is good! We usually obtain them in shops selling food for animals, so they are not really what you might call earthworms, but very creepy and crawly nevertheless! But, we have also had those white ones and they are the most disgusting and probably also most appropriate as they are the ones you will find in rotten corpses. The maggots are one reason why some venues have banned us, another one is blood and also raw meat. Some places have been really cool about it while others have banned us or charged us for cleaning up all the bloody mess! But, this is an important part of our (unfortunately very rare) live shows, so we will keep on doing this if we ever get to play live again!
Horror Records is your small Ug label, could you introduce it for the readers because it surely isn't very well known?
-I started Horror Records in 1997 because there was a need for it. Too many labels neglected vinyl releases and also I felt that it was the time to start a label to release the material of worthy bands that would be ignored by other labels. Today it seems that ANY shitty band can get a deal and have their material out, but Horror records is still important because it stands for true quality and dedication, not some sort of business and pure money-making. It started out as a distribution in 1997 and became a label also in 1998 when I released the first 7” EP of the godly and terribly underrated Feikn. I am always dealing with financial problems, but I have managed to release the following jewels...
HOR 001: Feikn (Den): ”Helhesten”/”Aamanden” 7” EP
HOR 002: Brandpest (Den): ”I Fandens Vold og Magt” 7” EP
HOR 003: Denial Of God (Den): ”The Ghouls of DOG” mini-LP
HOR 004: Strychnos (Den): ”Terror lies within” 7” EP
HOR 005 (USA): ”Troops of Unfeigned Might” 7” EP
HOR 001 PD: Feikn (Den): ”Helhesten”/”Aamanden” picture 7” EP
HOR 006: NunSlaughter / Grand Belial's Key (USA/USA): ”Satan is Metal's Master”/”Sperm of the Antichrist” 7” EP
HOR 007: Impaler (USA): ”The Mutants rise again” 7” EP
HOR 008: Blood Thirsty Demons (Ita): ”Sabbath – Solve et Coagula” LP
Next I will release a 7” EP of Abysmal Grief (Ita) entitled ”Hearse” which will be followed by 7” EPs by Victimizer (Den) and Crucifier (USA). The Impaler 7” EP will be released as a picture disc and also I hope the day will finally come when I will get to release the Feikn mini-LP! If I should say a few words about the label I would have to say that it is totally untrendy and that everything is chosen 100% seen from my personal taste. The music differs very much from release to release, but generally you could say that I am dealing with EVIL Metal!
What kind of deal you are able to offer for your bands, can you pay their studio-costs etc.?
-The usual deal is that the band delivers me the recordings and some cover art and then I pay for the pressing and the band gets a bunch of free copies to sell themselves. This has been the deal so far, and it works very well this way. The bands are of course free to do with the recordings as they please once their release is sold out from me.
Is Horror Records an official company with V.A.T. registration etc.? I ask this because there is a big difference between an official company and unofficial ”hobby”… in many ways.
-No, Horror Records is not a registered company. It is total underground and I don't make any money with this anyway, so it would all be useless work to register this company.
You also have an Ug magazine called Tornado and three issues have been published so far. What made you to start it and do you make all the stuff alone or with the help of ( many? ) contributors? And if you have other people helping you, do you give them total freedom about their interviews/reviews or whatever?
-Tornado Magazine is done by Ustumallagam, not by me, I have only done a few contributions to some interviews, that is all – and of course I distribute a lot of copies through Horror Records (it is my best selling magazine). Actually 4 issues have been released so far. The aim of Tornado Magazine is in many ways the same as the one of Horror records – namely to support worthy bands.
What kind of lay-out it has, glossy covers and pages perhaps, and how many copies are printed of each issue?
-The layout is total cut and paste style, but it looks really great in my opinion. Lots of horrible frames, quotes and some weird things in between all the text. It has this certain something that most magazines of today don't have anymore where the number of reviews and interviews, having a glossy/colored cover and lots of advertising seems more important than putting some real SPIRIT into the magazine. The magazines are all xeroxed in good quality and have between 40 and 50 pages in A5 format. Issue #1 was printed in 150 copies, #2 in 200 copies and #3 and #4 in 300 copies each. One thing I like about the mag is that it is packed with lots of information and has no advertising on every second page.
One thing I was wondering was the Denial of God-interview in issue 1… I know there are many ways to feature such but let me know anyway, did you interview yourself perhaps?
-Haha, I am not surprised you wonder about that one. Well, Ustumallagam actually interviewed me, and even if it might seem strange to do something like that, it worked out well as the questions were of such a character that it did not matter much that we were both in the same band. This interview could have been for any band, so it was okay. I don't expect more interviews with me in future issues, though, haha!
Can you name any still existing band you would desire to interview and explain your choice?! Is it hard to find bands that are good enough for being interviewed in Tornado?
-Well, there have already been a lot of the best bands in the previous issues, so to think of someone particular here is hard…Issue #5 will a.o. have a lengthy interview with Blasphemy who are a bit of a legend in themselves, so that will be a great and interesting interview. We had wanted to do an interview with Satan's Host as well, but I am not sure this will happen now as the band suddenly stopped answering our inquiries (I was hoping to re-release their old albums on Horror Records as well). There should be an interview with the reformed Future Tense which should be interesting as well. Personally I would like to do some lengthy interviews with doomers like Paul Chain and Pentagram and hopefully that will happen at some point!
Have you read the book Lords of Chaos? What you think about it and do you think it's a good and reliable source for those who are seeking the truth about ( Norwegian ) black metal? Did you find many people who you have been in contact within the book?
-Yes, I have read the book quite some time ago, and I think it gives quite a good insight into what happened during those years, although it can certainly never cover the whole truth. Yes, we have been in touch with many of the individuals in that book and that only makes me wonder what it all meant as everybody seems to have changed and become more ”mellow” and most of all less controversial (something everybody back then seemed to be really fond of being). I just don't give a fuck about all those people anymore!
What is your honest opinion about the Norwegian scene of today? Tell me especially what you think about your long time favourite, Mayhem? What about Sweden and Finland?
-It has been ages since I heard something really good and original come out of Norway, so I am not impressed at all, although that goes for the whole world these days – too many clones and bands that will disappear after having released a few meaningless albums. Mayhem is DEAD and a total disgrace to Dead and Euronymous and I wish that they had stopped in 1993 becausr they haven't released anything I like at all since then! The magic is lost forever and only their evil tunes of old will live on forever in my blackened heart! I guess Sweden and Finland are better, but also there there is FAR between the good bands compared to their increasing numbers. Actually, to be honest, I don't care much about ”scenes” anymore as bands come and go and only a handful of truly great bands survive more than a few years, and how can you obtain a somewhat decent ”scene when people come and go with the trends all the time?? It has all become too much of a masqeruade!
More and more NSBM bands emerge in the scene nowadays, what you think about them and what you think about the idea ”bm is for white only”? Do you know Thunderbolt which is also featured in this issue, any opinion about them?
-Well, that is the newest trend and I am sure only a few of these bands will still be around doing their thing in a few years from now. I don't know Thunderbolt so I can't say anything about them. If Black metal is for white people only? Ask a Black Metal band! And keep politics out of Metal!
You told me some years ago that two Finnish people ( Juha and his girlfriend, who were they by the way? ) visited your place and you drunk a lot and also took some medical pills… and that it was cool. Do you still take drugs and is it still a cool thing?
-I have no idea who they were, just some people I saw once because a friend of mine brought them along. I haven't seen them since but that girl was a whore, haha! The only drugs I do once in a while is amphetamine/speed, but that is on rare occasions. And pot once a year or something… I prefer alcohol anyway…
You also told about some grave desecrations, but are you able to make such things when sober or do you need drugs and/or alcohol before?
-People who NEED drugs and/or alcohol to do this should ask themselves WHY they are doing it! To them it is just plain vandalism and they might just as well go out and scratch some cars or crush some windows at the local grocery store! Besides this I have NO comments about this…
What is your opinion about the EU and Euro? I know Denmark didn't change its currency but do you consider this good or bad thing? Or do you give a shit for all of this?!
- Come on, this is a Denial Of God interview (well noticed, right??) and I will surely not waste my time with answering such non-relevant questions in an interview like this. Keep politics out of Metal!
Any opinion about the WTC terrorist strike? Where would you strike ( with a plane ) to make your message heard?
-Of course I have an opinion, but again we get into politics and this is not the right place for such a thing. That strike just proves what a disease Islam is and is a proof that such an act was necessary before someone would realize this. The best place to strike with a plane? That would be Mecca when it is full of pilgrims!
You and Ustumallagam are left from the original line-up and line-up have changed many times during the years, but what made Uksul to leave the band, did he leave the music completely and are you still friends? Have you got a permanent ( whatever that means in D.O.G. ) drummer already?
-Yes, we are the sole survivors. But, undead cannot die, so…Uksul left the band because he was no longer interested in playing this music. Shortly after he left the band he sold all his Metal records and I haven't seen him since, so I can't really say I have much of a relationship with him, can I? I think he is still into music, but only Jazz and classical music because he was studying such things back then. I guess I haven't seen him for something like 5 years now and Kulmar I haven't seen since 1994. After Uksul we had Sorgh on drums and after he left we have used R. Salжskov as a session drummer. We will record the album with him and after that we will once again have to look for a new drummer because that will be the last thing he will ever do with us. To be honest, I think it will be almost IMPOSSIBLE to find someone permanent for the band because we get older and older and a new drummer would be young and probably all influenced by the wrong bands… We need someone as dedicated as we are, but noone seems to think the way we do and I am more than tired of working with people who do not feel 100% dedicated to what we do!
Isaz has been your bassist for quite a long time, who is she… where did you find her and is there any big differences working and playing with her compared with your male bandmates?
-Yes, Isaz has been a member since 1997 and we are certainly glad to have that witch in the band! We were in touch as she plays in Feikn and when she moved down here to live with me at that point in time, it was clear that she had to be in the band – and she has been there ever since! I don't see any difference between her and a male bassist except for the fect that she has the right mantality and also is the most talented and dedicated bassist we have had.
I think you are still looking for a label to release ”The Ghouls of DOG” and ”Klabautermanden” MCDs together on full-length CD, right? Why are you looking for a label for such release, you are a vinyl-freak anyway, so why don't you just release your stuff on vinyl ( like you have mainly done so far )? What would you demand from a label before you let them release that CD?
-We have discussed this but nothing has been settled yet, so I can't tell you exactly what will happen except that I think, such a release would be great as the old mini-CDs are long out of print. Yes, we are totally into vinyl, but we would like to make those releases available also to those unfortunate/ignorant ones who only have CD players! Of course we could just keep on releasing vinyls but tell me someone who will pay $ 3000 for studio costs and then only release the album on limited LP!! As I said, we want to make those releases available again (they might be re-released on vinyl as well) and it would be the best to combine those two releases on one CD. First of all we want to have full control over the way the product is presented and else we just need a decent payment for it. We would demand that the label is totally into the musick of course, but as I already said twice, I am mostly thinking about having the CD released the way WE want it, everything else is second. I don't expect to get rich on what we do, so money is second – although I feel it is about time we get a little financial bonus out of this as well!
Can you give more info about the future releases you already know… thank you!
-We have the following (re-)releases planned so far:
”The Crypt has Eyes” picture 7” EP
”Robbing the Grave of the Priest” picture 7” EP
”The Dawn of Aemizaez: Demos 1992-1993” LP+ CD
”A Night in Transylvania” 12” + CD-single
”The Horrors of Satan” LP + CD
Furthermore we will be featured on a video compilation done by Oupiric Productions entitled ”Oupiric Slaughter”, but this one has been in the works for long and I don't know what will happen with it, I just hope it will come out soon – finally! Also we plan to re-release ”The Ghouls of DOG” and ”Klabautermanden” on new vinyl formats and of course on CD as I mentioned, but I think we will concentrate about the releases above first.
Can you name the best and also the worst reunion/come-back metal gig you have witnessed? And the same for the albums…!
-One of the worst things I have seen must be Grim Reaper – they were fucking awful! Also Mayhem was truly bad although that was not exactly a comeback gig. Well, it was not a reunion, but Dee Snider fucking raged through all the old Twisted Sister classics, so that was a truly great one!
Any opinion about bands like e.g. Manilla Road and Cirith Ungol…?
- Manilla Road is great although I miss their releases in my collection and therefore haven't listened enough to them to give a really honest opinion, but what I heard was great! Cirith Ungol...aaaaarrghh! ”Thunder howls, the king will rise again!” – they fucking kill!!! Total fucking heavy and with evil lyrics – those vocals will make any neo-Black Metaller pale in comparison! And some even called them a Black metal band back then! One of the guys died – may he rest in peace! The tunes will live on forever!
Last time I asked this one, you were mainly interested in my sexual habits, but I ask this anyway; Do you have anything to ask me?!
-Do you feel old? I ask you this because you have been doing your magazine for so many years now and like me you have seen people and bands come and go while you have remained where you started...
-(Tommi): When I started in 1993, I was already 21-years-old and some people considered me as old already. Well, I think this is one of the reasons why I still keep the flame burning… When I started I already knew what kind of ‘zine I want to publish and especially; what kind of music and attitude I want to feature!!! So the answer is; I don't feel old!
Last comments and information, please! And Azter, shall we meet again, let's say in year 2005…?!
-Thank you very much for this most excellent interview, Tommi! I am sorry it took me ages to get the replies back to you, but I hope it was worth the wait and that you will understand that I am very busy with my activities and that the time to do interviews is not always as present as I would like it to be! Finally I want to say that I am grateful for your continuous support and that I am glad to see you are still doing your thing! Yes, let us meet again in 2005 and then please send me the interview in 2004 to make sure I will make it on time!
Keep the spirit alive and the black flame burning! Hail horror, hail Metal and hail the Satanic spirit!Ghouls should check out the Crypt of the Undead at: www.denialofgod.net
LEVIFER (Peru) download HERE
Questions Tommi Hakonen / answered by Juan Nalvarte
So far Dark Moon has featured some Peruvian metal only by reviews but now it's time for something more. South-American terrorist death black destruction with Levifer and Goat Semen…
Let's start with background information. Tell me your age and all the bands you have been involved in, please!
-Hell! I am 24 and I have played since 1996, year that I started Levifer under another name!! Later, I was part of Black Angel in all 1999, and in early 2000 I decided to split from that band and form mighty Goat Semen!!!
Which one is your main band at the moment, Levifer or Goat Semen? And why?
-There are lots of work with Goat Semen so we are going to recording our first demo debut self titled!! And also leviferian/goating tracks for coming split 7”ep!! Then, by now I am active with both of them!!! Even though Goat Semen line up is more probable to play in live!!! I rule in Levifer totally since I am the only member by now!!!
You say that Goat Semen is influenced, among many others, by The True Mayhem ( with Euro ) but what you think about the fact that many Norwegian bands ignore South-American bands and are actually saying things like ”Black Metal is for white only” and ”Avoid the South-American scene because they ruin the true bm-spirit”, etc. etc.? Do you receive hate mail or other shit from the bands and people who are more or less into Nazism, nsbm, etc.?
-Until now I haven't received a fuck from such kind of people (ns...!)!! But good fukking comments from Norway though!!! Suppose some Norwegian bands do that because of ignorance!!! They must know that Euro was in touch and worshipped this unholy, ugly and raw scene so that he even wanted to sign a South-American horde!!! And definitely he was influenced by our scene by taking Sarcofagoґs evil image!!!
I remember that Holocausto ( of Beherit ) told in an old interview that there will be lots of bands which copy Beherit's music. And I must say that when I got the Goat Semen stuff, I immediately remembered what Holocausto once said… Also other bands you have mentioned as an inspiration; Sarcofago, Blasphemy, Conqueror,… can be ”heard” but why do you almost imitate and copy those legends?
-We don't copy a fukk!! Just let fluid black semen from goat!!! Just mention such inspirations for reference from us!!! You will just find true metal!! You must hear all our stuff!! Just South-American terrorist death black destruction!! That's our path!!
Speaking of Beherit… do you think people who are selling their old Beherit items for hundreds of dollars are UG-people or just more like greedy bastards who just wanted to cash with their items? I ask this because I have had almost all the early Beherit items and all of them have been sold/traded with fair prices ( like e.g. the split EP with Death Yell for some 30FIM/US$6 including P&P ) … this is and has always been my policy as I don't want to rip people off by asking huge amounts of money from items I have bought with a normal price… and because of this some call me stupid but do you understand my point of view? Where do you stand in this matter, by the way?
-Rare and kult items have a high price mostly!! And sometimes it worth because of the kult they are!
You are selling some bootleg shirts (??) of the old bands like e.g. Beherit… isn't it just as bad as selling old demos or albums without the bands' permission? Isn't it just as greedy as selling any bootleg material and how would you react if you saw someone selling your demos without your permission? Would you just say; ”I'm ok with it”?
-They are limited trendkiller black shirts which I distribute, and are not overvalued, US$16 each! Also it is not a great business, you know, because of this heavy stuff!!! I use to trade them with real ug people!!! CDґs do are profitable!!! On the other hand, I have been said that some Brazilian guys are making Levifer bootleg shirts, and I think it is amazing the appreciation for Levifer because of that!!!
How did you choose the name ”Goat Semen” and are you familiar with the Brazilian band Goat Penis (R.I.P.?)…?
-Goat Semen is the name of our first composed track (early 2000), so that name of my horde comes from it!! Don't know Goat Penis!
Levifer's debut demo, ”Tribute to the Supreme Beast”, sounds quite different compared with Goat Semen… First expression was that the music is very similar to the early 90s gore-death the American way ( but ) with evil lyrics and after a few listening I also noticed that Levifer's stuff have some strong touches of Morbid Angel… I think your demo could have been easily sold as the ”never released” demo of many American gore-death bands that existed ten years ago… Do you agree with these opinions?
-For sure I appreciate American and Swedish old school, the same for 90ґs bm!! I just have released black morbidness in one word! With these all influences in my way!!
As I have no lyrics for the Goat Semen stuff, I looked the Levifer lyrics more carefully and I must say that one couldn't find more clichй blasphemies very easily… How seriously you take the lyrics and do you take them literally by yourself?
-Wanted to blasphemate my black convictions!! There is certain metaphor!!! And it will be understood well by real unholy ones!!! And not by Christian people that take lyrics literally!!!
Levifer was formed in 1996 but it took some four years before the first official demo was released, why it took so long? The songs don't sound very complicated and as I told earlier, the lyrics are not any poetry either, so one could say that it takes some 30 minutes for one song to be made… what is the reality of making Levifer songs?
-The drummer and I began to learn how to play our instruments (not having instruments at home! Just hiring!) And develop our first track since that time, other tracks were composed little by little, during years so beside lack of budget, they are reasons for this period of time!
”7 bloody hymns of war which will torture your soul and take your mind into my black hole”… what actually is this black hole, I hope it isn't what I first thought it could be?!
-It is the master's reign!!
Levifer demo is very professional package, but how much does this kind of demo-release cost there in Peru and is it easy to make such release… are there any problems with printing companies or do they care about the lyrics and evil images?
-No much problems with kind of images and hymns. Sometimes they refuse to press black color stuff and ask about officiality of stuff!!! Black package is certainly cheap here, us$70 or so for 1000 of my covers!!!!
Many South-European bands are hailing their ancestors and ancient Gods, but what is your relationship with the old Peruvian traditions and beliefs?
-It is appreciated, in Goat Semen we have tracks such as: ”Pachacamac Goat”, ”Oracle of the Sands”, where declare respect and worshipping to ancients!!!
What you think about the year 1532 when Pizarro and other conquistadores arrived in Peru? I think it's a tragedy what those ”true believers and defenders of the faith” did almost 500 years ago and compared with what happened in Scandinavia, the story is very much the same although more bloodier… how familiar your are with the stories from that time and are you interested in them?
-It is part of fukking things Christian bastards did on the entire world!! And the motive of the black vengeance!!!! Unfortunately, bastards arrived when there was a conflict between Incas, for government, so that sukkers took advantage about it! If Inca reign would have been united, it could have been another history!
It's said that during the era of conquistadores raping, robbing and killing the Incas, the current Inca leader, Manco, had said that Peruvians must keep their old traditions and Gods alive in their hearts and not to reveal all of their sacred places and rites, and to pretend that they accept the ”new God and belief”… so what is the reality nowadays, have the Peruvians kept their old beliefs alive in their hearts or are they totally accepted the Christian faith? What is your reason to fight against the Christianity?
-Descendings straightly of Incas are people that have knowledge obviously!! It is said there are places where Incas hide all wealth (gold) when bastards came here!!! They could have killed lots in that time, but some people had their belief well strong!! And they refuse Christian religion! Above all in Cuzco, place where Machupicchu is located and just discovered!! Bastards never knew this building so that it has been conserved for long time!!! On the other hand, unfortunately, in all Peru Christianism is a mass and it has mixed with ancient traditions, for example, before people used to take in shoulders momies and make a kind of procession! In that way, they worshipped death!!! By riding on dead giving gifts and even feed them!!! Nowadays, some statues from fukking Saints are taken on shoulders for riding!! Fukk!!! Under this act is the ancient tradition though! Christianism has destroyed our great ancient culture and is inhuman, not allowing the development of being (ego)!! Enough reasons for fukking it!!!
Many South-American countries and cultures were totally destroyed by the conquistadores, do you think there could be something good with these things, do you think some civilization or countries actually deserved to become annihilated?
-They did that for deleting all ancient culture in name of their sukking god! And looking for gold at the same time, of course! All country should be proud about their ancient cultural legacy!! Annihilation to all ways of Christ!!!
Have you eaten guinea-pigs? What you think about the people who have guinea-pigs as pets? And what you think about pets in general… can a real metalhead or even a black metal maniac have pets without becoming too ordinary and human?
-Suppose you mean ”cuyes” (they look like rats), I have eaten a few of them before. People raise cuyes in their common homes! But cuyes are not pets normally!! On the other hand, some take savage animals like pets, which is not well for them because of their real habitat!! Some guys take snakes, chameleons, small lizards and monkeys like pets which are from our jungle!! They really suffer with this environmental!! There are domesticated animals which can live with us! And it is ok for me!!!
What is the Peruvian scene like, are there many bands or is it just you, Mortem and just couple of others? And what is it like to be a metalhead in Peru, can you walk the streets wearing anti-Christian symbols, shirts, etc. or are you forced to wear ”normal” clothes? Is metal music accepted in record stores and can you get UG stuff from Peruvian stores? Can you perform your art live, and if yes, how many people come to see bands like e.g. Levifer?
-I don't consider there is a metal scene here, just some bands! All a challenge as I said lots of fukking Christians here, and they get fear when see us, longhaired maniacs in black! Police don't bother much! Just a few record stores and not much real metal in them!!! I haven't played with my current hordes so far! Btw, we (Goat Semen) have been invited to be part of sacrifice of the nazarene chil fest, in December (Texas, Usa), we see what happens then! But normally you will be able to find 200 people or so in a regular concert!
Do you have any closer contact with other South-American scenes, do you help each other by organizing gigs etc. or is more like separate scenes in each country? What you think about e.g. Brazilian scene nowadays…?
-About South-America, I have contacts in Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil and Chile! And each has their own shit!! Talking about Brazil, I appreciate ug bro hordes such as Unholy Massacre and Necrocult! Really kill!!! On the other hand, there are other Brazilian hordes that are too much influenced by European bm style!! Appreciate Krisiun also!
Have you had any problems with postal system? Is the Peruvian postal system reliable? Why do you have so many different e-mail addresses for Levifer, Goat Semen and DAP?
-All mails I have sent from here have arrived without problems!!! I trust my postal service but the problem is that it is too expensive, and comparing with others, it is the most expensive on the world I would say!! Fukk!! About e-mails, they are for organizing kind of mails I get!!
”True metal, no keys, no female vocals and another shit”… do you think all the bands that have keys or/and female vocals are wimps and not real metal? Really? Can you name even one GOOD band with such ”shit”… any?
-Actually, I don't have problems if I hear an obscure key, well done in that way. Bands like Expulser (Brazilian kult!) used keys in their great split lp with Brutal Distortion (Bra), also Mortem (Per) used it! So there are exceptions! Also could mention Negura Bunget which really surprised me with their way!!! The rule is darkness and destruction in metal!!! That's it! There could be other stuff like sweet keys and female vocals, and it could even sounds good for some, but it doesn't deserve to be called metal, no way!!!
Do you listen to any non-metal bands? Is it possible to listen to goth/ambient bands or even more mainstream stuff without loosing one's metal status in your eyes?
-Just some classical music and 70ґs, 80ґs hard rock!
What you think about Cradle of Filth? When did you hear their music for the first time and was it love/hate since the first time?
-Not much, just some tracks years ago! It didn't impressed to me!
What does the term ”terrorist style” or ”terrorist black metal” actually mean? Is it just another ”cool” definition to be used as the plain term, black metal, sounds so dull nowadays?
-As I said personal definition for our shit is: South-American terrorist death black destruction!!! It is our front and way of war to god!!!
You have a distro called Devil's Art productions… and also the Levifer demo was released by DAP, but do you have any other bands to be released or is DAP only for Levifer? What kind of policy you have when choosing stuff for sale or do you accept all kinds of releases if you get them in trade?
-DAP is developed as label, distributor and has will of promotion to insane evil hordes!!! It is running in a secure way and looking for destructive bands for being signed!! It is a fact that DAP was born by releasing Levifer stuff! Try to get all holocaust I can find on the fukking black globe!! I am focused in death black stuff mostly!!! So killer extreme hordes feel free to write!
Have you had any editorial activities, own magazine for example?
-So far, no!
”Tribute to the Supreme Beast” was released already in 2000, so do you have new songs ready for the next Levifer release? Any changes in music or/and lyrics, and when do you think the next release would be released?
-Next release will be available soon! Split 7”EP with Goat Semen will be released by Legion of Death Rex. (Fra) so die hard maniacs can just expect evilness and sickness from leviferian hymns!!!
If you had to choose, would you wear white jeans, glam-rock outfit a'la Bowie or Slade, or a kilt while on stage with Levifer? Why would you choose that outfit?
-You are kidding!
Anything to ask me, now is your chance!
-Difference among Darkie and DM?
-(Tommi): Darkie is dead and Dark Moon is still alive!
Final greetings. Thanks for the interview!
-Just say hails to all extreme metal maniacs from there and black earth!! Thanks for your honest support, demon! Keep under Dark Moon! Ave Levifer!! Goat rulez! Worship devil! XXIII A.S.
WITHERED GARDEN (Fin) download HERE
Questions Tommi Hakonen / answered by Teemu Raunio
Withered Garden is one those bands that should have been featured in Dark Moon 'zine years ago. Fortunately the band is still alive, so I asked some questions which were answered by Teemu.
Hello Teemu and welcome to my 'zine, did you ever think WG or you would be featured in Dark Moon?
-Thanks a lot. Yes, I thought about it. 5 years ago though.
Would you tell me when the WG “Heaven Raped” CD is out and why is it released anyway, I thought WG were dead and buried or am I wrong?
-We never made that kind of decision. Running an UG band has been difficult when I moved away from Tampere. You know how it goes with UG releases, money and free time tells you the releasing dates. The same goes with “Heaven Raped ”CD, we are working on the cover and don't know any releasing dates yet. Time will tell is this the last strike of WG. You can always arise from the grave.
WG's web-site can't be found anymore, this is usually a sign of a final bow. You have some basic info about WG on your own site, so is it the only way to know more about WG from now on?
-The band would definitely need (and has always needed) a new web site. If WG continues existing through next year, there may be a need for a new site. And I don't see why it wouldn't.
I am quite curious to know why your debut demo, ”As the Evil Wins”, was not mentioned on your own site, are you ashamed of it or just did not remember to put it there?
-We didn't think it as a WG release, as band had a different name that time and new members joined the band after it. I'm not ashamed, there are lots of good memories connected to it.
”As the Evil Wins” demo was released under the name Halls of Mandos… but how much did the band change after the demo and why?
-The first demo was a rehearsal room recording, and there were only four members playing on it. After that two new members joined the band, and we had the first contacts with the UG. The change was big, we didn't play alone in a garage anymore.
Halls of Mandos… the name was taken from Tolkien mythology (by Janne Valtonen) and I think the fact that so many bands are using Tolkien mythology in their music made you to change the name, am I right? What is matter with Tolkien mythology in metal or at least in metal you represent?
-That might have been one of the reasons. There is nothing wrong with Tolkien mythology, in metal either, we just felt that the name should be changed so we did.
I remember when I first heard about you, and I thought you were just a bunch of kids trying to be evil and true but I was pleasantly surprised when I heard your demo it wasn't that Norwegian-like bullshit at all but more like death-influenced black metal I know you didn't please everybody and you didn't have too many contacts either, but what made you to continue?
-The same reason that now still made us to record new tracks for “Heaven Raped” CD. Most of the time we enjoyed playing together, our music was a bit different from the others and working with Finnish ( and worldwide ) underground was interesting.
Your 2nd demo, ”Watcher in the Nightsky”, was much better in every way and I think my biggest (??) mistake with you was that I never released that demo together with your ”Exhausted Eden” MCD but what you think about the 2nd demo nowadays and should it have been released together with the MCD, be honest?!
-I've always been very satisfied with “Watcher...“ and still am. It was made 6 years ago, and “Praise of Evil Rising High” was the first of our songs ever played in a radio. And now when you mentioned it, releasing it with the MCD might have been a good idea. Never crossed my mind, I can't remember if there were chances to do that those days.
What was your first thought when you heard that I was interested in releasing your stuff in MCD-format? And what you think about it now, do you think this release was kind of beginning of the end because I couldn't get you a real deal and MCD didn't really impress the metal UG?
-I was surprised and glad, because your taste is not the easiest one to please, and also because the material was recorded rather badly in a hurry and otherwise lousy conditions, so I wasn't totally satisfied with it. Now I think that you are probably one big reason why WG has continued this far. MCD was vital to the band. Surely it wasn't an end, it really kept us going; how could I blame you for not getting us a deal, or not to impress anyone? It's our job to do that, and with that MCD, we failed.
Do you think the MCD helped you in any way… and do you think I could have done things better with the MCD, at least I still have some 400 copies left, want some?
-I must apologize for I haven't shown you the gratitude you deserve. Of course it helped us a lot. The band survived those hard times, it got us a new drummer, and got some nice reviews ( for example 7,5 / 10 in Suomi Finland Perkele ) and was played in radio by Klaus Flaming. We got a lot, and owe you big time for that. I surely hope we can make it up to you some day.
I am not an expert judging musicians' skills but one thing I know for sure, the drummer on the MCD sucks big time, do you agree? Can you imagine how much better and tougher the stuff would have been with a better drummer?
-Drummer had always been the weakest link of WG. The drums on the MCD suck, and yes, I have many times thought how much better we could've done with a better drummer. Well, we kicked the drummer out and got a better one.
Whose idea was that band photo on the booklet of the MCD? I have been told that the photo looks really stupid and actually push people away from the MCD… why didn't you just print the lyrics in the booklet?
-As I remember we made the booklet together with Ipe and after that showed it to everyone, as I know including you. Don't remember whose idea it was, but it surely looks like the old WG web site, utterly tasteless.
And speaking of the photo on the MCD, it really looks stupid and lyrics would have been a much better choice but you know I didn't limit your options with the covers…
-I totally agree with you with MCD covers. Live and learn… TBOD demo has lyrics instead of photo (though you didn't like them). (Well, actually Markus didn't like them as he made the review. –ed.)
In 1999 you released a promo CD-r which included three songs and this stuff is also featured in the new CD, but what was the response like with this one… any real deal-proposals? And how many copies were spread?
-Response was quite good from the few friends that got it, a couple of good reviews and a radio play. No deal-proposals what so ever. I have no idea of the number of the copies spread, but not much more than a hundred. This promo wasn't actually released into UG at all, some copies sold now and then.
For me the ”promo 99” sounds quite the same than ”Exhausted Eden” but with better and tighter playing, also the drummer is much better this time… do you think this promo is your best material so far?
-On my opinion, yes. The 4 new tracks on “Heaven raped” CD have a very different style, which make them hard to compare, but the production couldn't reach the level of “promo '99”. As a material, promo is the best we've done, although I like more the new style, simpler and less melodic.
After the promo (or even before it actually) things went to the wrong direction and Ipe became the vocalist of Nocturn… what happened between you two? It's a cliché but I know you had also some serious musical disagreements and I have been told that you didn't consider Ipe as equal musician… could you tell me about these things because I really don't know what actually happened?
-We had disagreements on the line of our music, as we have a different kind of taste, and it was really hard to work together sometimes. I don't know what you've heard, but I think there weren't really any bad conflicts. Disagreements weren't just between me and Ipe, the whole band joined the discussion. The question wasn't about anyone's musicianship, but simply about how our music was constructed. I made all our new songs, and sometimes the proposed changes were so major that the song lost its idea. Everyone had to make compromises, and the new material, as far as I know, pleased everyone. We just realized we can't continue the same progressive line that promo had. If something doesn't grow, it will die. So we grew, and time will tell if we grew enough.
About Nocturn, was Ipe's move to Nocturn like a blasphemy to you because I remember how you and Ipe laughed and joked about Nocturn earlier? You know I have always liked WG much more but what is your honest opinion about their music nowadays?
-Nocturn's first releases weren't at all my cup of blood, and their track “Vittu on Talvi“ is one of the most exciting Finnish bm-acts ever made. Ipe's work with them has never been a problem to me, and after he joined the band their music has improved dramatically. I was really impressed hearing “The meaning of the beast “ CD-r for the first time. Sadly they haven't developed as well as could've been possible. Still, Nocturn is one of the leading dm bands in Tampere, and Ipe takes most of the credit.
I have also been told that during the recordings of the new CD, you and Ipe had some arguments once more and not only about music but also because your girlfriend was there to make some female vocals… so why did you want Ipe to handle the vocals, you surely knew you couldn't get along that well?
-?? I didn't think that was a big deal to anyone, at least not big enough to make an interview question about it. I haven't heard any talks about this, and I think it was a little musical disagreement, I thought female vocals were ok, others didn't and that's it. I don't think that the fact that the singer was my girlfriend had anything to do with it, only thing I can come up with is that I might have not been totally objective, as I like her voice. Anyway the argument was band's, not Ipe's. I wanted Ipe to handle the vocals, because he's always been part of WG and I can't really imagine WG without him. He also does his job damn well and that's what counts.
I know you have always been kind of different to many other musicians playing such extreme music, you don't really look like metalhead etc., but how metal you are at heart? Explain!
-I have listened metal since a kid, and though I have never looked like an actual metalhead, I have always been one. Of course, I listen to all kinds of music, but mostly metal. It has been an important part of my life during the lonely years. I've played guitar soon for 12 years, and can't play much but metal. Metal is my way, and the hair grows.
Speaking of your looks, how important it is to look like metalhead, what do you think?
-Everyone can look the way he / she chooses. I personally am more impressed when long-haired metal musicians perform on stage, but I also enjoy seeing something totally different and even rebellious in that genre if it's done with style. Anyway, the music is always the most important thing.
You have also had some argument about the name Withered Garden, this is an old story but could you tell me what you think about it now and what was it like when it actually happened, were you scared to death that the Finnish black metal mafia would punish you for your sin to name band like that?
-I have always preferred music to other things, and that may be one reason why we haven't pleased everybody: at some point Ipe was the only one with long hair, and I must admit that having too much short hair in a band doesn't do good to the image. I personally don't care that much, but long hair does belong to metal, and especially on stage they impress much more than short ones. The same goes with the name, I didn't really think of what others think about it, I think it's sometimes great to hear a brutal band with a wimpy name.
Withered Garden doesn't really sound like a brutal band's name, but when I look at your lyrics in the song ”Exhausted Eden”, the name suddenly get a whole new meaning… ”Heavenly father, Lord of Light. Lying on his sickbed. Watching his withered garden listening the screams of his children. Pleasures of heaven, all undone. Alone in chaos god will cry. He knows his time has come. To die.” … do you think guys like e.g. Nazgul would have understand the meaning of the name if they read the lyrics?
-Yes, the lyrics of “Exhausted Eden” are much of what the name Withered Garden stands for. I don't think it's that difficult to see the connection between these two, but some people in the UG judge bands due to their name and don't bother to find out what they're really about. There has been quite a lot of misunderstandings, but usually people get the idea after listening or reading the lyrics.
Have you lost or / and forgotten all of your old contacts and are you still corresponding with other metalheads around the world? Do you still buy/trade UG metal demos, 'zines, CDs, etc. and what are the latest five releases you have get for yourself, be honest!?
-I've been totally out from the UG for a couple of years, but not forgotten. I have all important letters stored and safe. Lately I've been in contact with Finnish underground, mainly dealing with The Beauty of Dying stuff. I haven't had contacts abroad for some time, but probably will soon. The main reason is my dislike towards the old mailing system, I try to handle as much as possible via internet. Yes, I've traded some demos lately, and latest five releases I've got are;
1) Omnium Gatherum : “Wastrel” promo ( good Finnish dm, they just signed with Rage of Achilles recs. )
2) Uttervoid : “Black & White” –demo CD (great hard core from Tampere)
3) Dimension : “Beyond the Lies“ - demo CD (progressive heavy metal band from Tampere)
4) Arch Enemy : ”Dark Earth” ( brilliant Swedish dm, one of the best bands I've ever heard)
5) Soilwork : ”Steel Bath Suicide” (everyone should know this, good Swe dm).
Even if this is the Withered Garden interview, I must ask some things about the band The Beauty of Dying, your first demo-CD was released in autumn 2001 and it's been reviewed in this issue, what you think about the review, does it give people the right picture about the stuff? Here's the review just in case you don't remember it anymore… ”A mixture of melodeath and early 90s Swedish death metal. Three good and well-performed songs. I just hate their lyrics but that's my problem I guess. A good investment for fans of Swedish stuff.”
-I think the description is good. I see TBOD music rather original compared to Finnish scene, there aren't too many bands here that play dm with At the Gates / The Haunted influences. Everyone can decide am I or is your ( actually it was made by Markus -ed. ) review right visiting mp3.com.
What has the response been from other publications and people, how many copies has been spread and so on? And is The Beauty of Dying just a project band for you or something more serious?
-Feedback has been very positive, you can read interviews in Trash and rage web'zine (www.trashandrage.net) and Hiidentorni webzine (www.come.to/hiidentorni). So far about 100 copies has been spread. TBOD was formed a year ago, I joined it last summer, and each member has a long musical background. Well over ten tracks are ready, gigs planned for next spring and next studio session will take place in February or March 2002, so it can't be but serious for me.
This question hasn't been asked many times before but I must ask it; how would you make your favourite christ burger?
-With well hung and bled lamb meat. Served at BlackDonald's, of course.
Anything you would like to ask me?
-Has Withered Garden helped you to live and learn?
- ( Tommi ): Of course… releasing your MCD was a great chance for me and even if it wasn't a real success, I learned a lot about real and official business. So, you owe me nothing, it was mutual help and without mistakes one can never learn anything.
Ok, that's it, was it worth waiting for? Final comments, messages or whatever!
-Totally worth waiting. Thanks a lot, the hardest one I've ever answered. Hails to Dark Moon for still supporting the UG, hails to all members of Withered Garden and everyone that has been dealing with us during the past seven years. KIITOS!